Handling firearms in the gun store

[medalguy]

I don't understand why so many people are dead set against always observing safety rules. Hmmm..... maybe that wasn't the best choice of words, but you get the idea. Whenever I pick up a handgun, I try to point it down at the ground in front of me as I check the chamber so no one gets swept. With a long gun, I point it up at the ceiling as I open the chamber, again so no one gets swept.

Yes there are times when it is simply impossible to avoid sweeping someone, somewhere. But we should make every effort possible to avoid carelessly or deliberately sweeping someone.

After all, no one has ever been accidentally shot by a loaded gun, right?

 

[beatledog7]

rc, medalguy:

I could not agree more. We all owe each other nothing less than 100% diligence.

 

[duck911]

Even though it wasn't a firearm, if nothing else, putting crosshairs on someone's forehead from across the store should be avoided out of simple common courtesy. Also, practicing this kind of courtesy makes safety a habit when it is a REAL gun.

When I walk into my indoor range, even though I know the rifles packed in their soft cases are unloaded, I make it a point not to point my cased firearms at someone if it can be helped. It's not so much a safety issue at that point as it is just basic courtesy.

I absolutely so NOT condone/allow folks to point a firearm in my direction. Does the OP have a reason to be alarmed at the action mentioned? Arguably. Does he have the right to not like it? ABSOLUTELY.

 

[slpcrf450x]

I can't count the times I've turned and seen a scope on me in the woods. With every single encounter I have (in not so polite ways) educated the offenders in the use of BINOCULARS

Exactly!!! When you are hunting you should always find your target with binoculars or a spotting scope and then use your firearm!

You should ALWAYS be aware of where others are and know exactly where you are pointing a firearm... ALWAYS means even if you just cleared it! I too hate when people just swing guns around and point them at people if you want to look through a scope point it up at least to the top of a wall above peoples heads

If you come into a store and are interested in a revolver that's in a glass display case, and there are other customers to your left and right, how would you propose the clerk let you examine it?

He unlocks the case and reaches in, and at the moment he touches that revolver, somebody is getting swept. What's your solution?

Anybody?

He might be sweeping someone for a fraction of a second which would be unavoidable but as soon as he touches it he had better have his finger off of the freaking trigger!

Now that I have said that I suppose someone is going to say "what if I want to test the trigger?" well the gunstore employee should clear the weapon and hand it to you. Upon receiving it you should verify that it really is clear AGAIN. Then you can point it somewhere preferably the floor at a steep enough angle that that nobody can just walk in front of you and get in the way and then you can test the trigger...

If anyone ever dry fired a weapon while pointing at me I would IMMEDIATELY begin beating them into a pulp. I have seen someone shot by an "EMPTY" gun and the shooter had exactly the same attitude as some of you people defending the safety violators, and I sure as **** don't want to have the same thing happen to me.

 

[Walkalong]

But when I know that gun is empty, like I just cleared it. I am not going to be all that concerned about where it is pointed.

That is so totally wrong thinking.

Safety first, second, third, and last. Safety always. You simply can not be safe enough. Sweeping someone with an "unloaded" rifle is simply bad protocol. You never point guns at people, period.

"Unloaded" guns have killed many people. Don't be a statistic.

 

[beatledog7]

I didn't read anybody here actually "defending" a safety violator. Some of us did make the case that with people all around a split-second sweep is sometimes unavoidable, and we explained why.

While having somebody dry fire at me would certainly earn him or her a strong tongue lashing (after I get up from wherever I ducked and rolled), do you really think beating them to a pulp is the solution? You do that, guess who does jail time.

 

[berettaprofessor]

. when I'm in a gun store and want to sight a weapon I aim on the wall well above people's heads

And how many shelves/people/columns do you think you cross raising the muzzle from the floor to the ceiling? Or do you point ahead to the rack of guns, move up the wall and across the ceiling to the other side each time?

 

[slpcrf450x]

I didn't read anybody here actually "defending" a safety violator. Some of us did make the case that with people all around a split-second sweep is sometimes unavoidable, and we explained why.

While having somebody dry fire at me would certainly earn him or her a strong tongue lashing (after I get up from wherever I ducked and rolled), do you really think beating them to a pulp is the solution? You do that, guess who does jail time.

probably wouldn't do it again to someone else would they?

while beating them to a pulp is admittedly a stretch sometimes a little more than a tongue lashing is needed...

 

[beatledog7]

I'll stick with the verbal response. That way I don't become a violent felon and forfeit my rights.

 

[eazyrider]

Good God I seem to have ruffled a few feathers. Well, I am not changing my ways. I am not unsafe in my opinion and in this case my opinion is all that matters, because you can't make me change. You all seem to think that I walk around playing cops and robbers with real, empty, guns. Of course I don't. But when I know it is clear I am not going to walk around like some robot with my weapon always pointed at the floor. It is as safe as safe can get. Now I may drop it on someones foot but that is about all the damage it can do.

If you are around me and mine, you better be concerned.

Calm down. Like I would disrespect you or yours by directly, intentionally pointing a gun at you. But let me tell you this, if you go all safety sally on me for no good reason then you can expect a little less than than cooperation. You think that your definition of safety is any better than mine? Based on what, your mindset. Well that is what I base mine on. Who are you to tell me I am wrong?

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Good God I seem to have ruffled a few feathers.

I would think so. Somewhere around 1959 or so I was taught that pointing a gun at somebody without intending to shoot them was either dangerous or impolite, or both.

Calm down.

Since you said you thought the gun was safe, you know because you checked. Sorry, that's not good enough for me.

Improper muzzle control is always bad, regardless of how safe you "know" you are being.

Don't point a gun at me, period.

 

[Walkalong]

You think that your definition of safety is any better than mine?

Obviously.

Based on what, your mindset. Well that is what I base mine on.

Based on behavior and attitude towards safety.

Who are you to tell me I am wrong?

Someone who has been around firearms all their life, who follows gun safety rules.

A weapon can kill in a split second. It happens, all too often. A cavalier attitude towards gun safety is dangerous.

We may not change your mind, but there are a great many more people than you reading this thread.

Be safe, live long.

 

[slpcrf450x]

I'll stick with the verbal response. That way I don't become a violent felon and forfeit my rights.

I would like to think that such a thing is worthy of LE giving me a break but I guess everyone cant think like me. There was a time that this would have been an acceptable reaction.

 

[slpcrf450x]

Don't point a gun at me, period.

Nuff Said

 

[eazyrider]

Well again, I would not point a gun at you so we agree. Nobody in the history of man has ever been shot with an empty gun. If they were the gun wasn't empty. Therefore it was not cleared. I have never in my life picked up a gun without checking it first. Now the day a bullet sneaks in somewhere, I might change my mind. In fact I will just give up guns altogether. Sometimes it just seems that people are acting when it comes to muzzle awareness. Like they want people to give them a gold star or something. Then the rifle goes in a case and gets laid down horizontally in the truck and "sweeps" a hundred people on the way home. What happened to muzzle awareness? I hope you see where I am getting at. Or in the case of pistols. Do you all mark which way the muzzle is pointing before transporting it?

What about breaking down a Glock? We point the weapon at something we don't intend to shoot and "gasp" pull the trigger. There goes another safety rule. I even hear people tell me that it bothers them that they have to pull the trigger to clean a Glock. If you can't tell that you weapon is cleared then you should not own a gun. And you guys are worried about me?

I am not trying to disrespect any one here. But you cannot tell me that your muzzles never point at people.

Again, not advocating pointing guns at people.

 

[beatledog7]

I would like to think that such a thing is worthy of LE giving me a break but I guess everyone cant think like me. There was a time that this would have been an acceptable reaction.

For better or for worse, I'm afraid this is not that time. Stupidity is legal. Assault is not.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

But you cannot tell me that your muzzles never point at people.

Yes I can.

 

[eazyrider]

Yes I can.

Okay then.

 

[jcwit]

Quite a statement!

 

[Bmac1949]

Back to my origional. It is never acceptable to sweep somebody with a gun empty or not and to stand follow someone around with a mounted scope on an empty stock is just as unacceptable. "Never point a firearm at something you're not prepared to shoot". You can split hairs but it pretty self explainatory.

 

[beatledog7]

Larry--and there is a point to this--where do you clean your guns?

 

[yeahbuddy]

I think there is a big difference between the muzzle pointing at someone when being handled vs. when it is in a case. Also, when I pull the trigger on a Glock for cleaning, I point it at something that wouldn't devastate me if it were shot.

Back on topic, I think it would be unnerving for a stranger to look through a scope trained on me. If someone was staring through binoculars at me in a store that would be rude and odd behavior too.

 

[chhodge69]

@ easy: When you make a habit of flipping that mental switch to "this gun safe" you open the door to accidents. Don't wait to actually FIND that missed round to re-think things.

Gun safety is ridiculously redundant and rigid to the point of being silly and/or a$$holish about it because you stand to lose SO much if you eff it up just once. It's not about your pride it's about being human and making mistakes. I hope someone upstairs is watching out for you and your acquaintances.

 

[benEzra]

I have never in my life picked up a gun without checking it first.

Why don't you just take the word of the guy who handed it to you that "it's unloaded" instead of checking it yourself? Because you don't know if that guy might be mistaken, right?

If you don't take somebody else's word that a gun is unloaded without checking it yourself first, WHY IN GOD'S NAME would you be OK with that same guy pointing that same unchecked-by-you gun at your heart or at your daughter's head?

See the problem?

Then the rifle goes in a case and gets laid down horizontally in the truck and "sweeps" a hundred people on the way home. What happened to muzzle awareness? I hope you see where I am getting at. Or in the case of pistols. Do you all mark which way the muzzle is pointing before transporting it?

We're not talking about guns in display cases, guns locked in gun cases, or secured away from human hands in pickups. We are talking about a man with a gun in his hands who is pointing that gun at you, your wife, or your child. That is NEVER acceptable no matter how many times that guy tells you "it's ok, it's unloaded."

And yes, somehow I have enough coordination to point a Glock at a safe backstop (not a person) when pulling the trigger prior to disassembly, and yes I could avoid pointing a revolver at a human being even if jammed shoulder to shoulder with others at the counter. It's not that hard.

This is not only basic gun safety, it is basic human courtesy. If there is a gun in your hands, don't point at people except in lawful self-defense, no matter how "unloaded" you tell them it is.

 

[dmazur]

I haven't been in a gun store in a while, but I've noticed what I consider "correct" gun handling at a counter -

The clerk "clears" the gun (action locked back, cylinder swung open, etc.) by pointing it at the floor (ceiling if a rifle). Then he points the muzzle at himself (or at the ceiling if a rifle) and hands it to the customer butt first. While this might appear to be a violation of the Four Rules, the gun is essentially incapable of firing in that condition. It's about as safe as it can be done, short of disassembling it.

While they don't yell at you, they appreciate it if you repeat the process before handing it back. I've had clerks tell me so.

Of course, since a lot of the customers in a gun store don't know gun safety, the clerk often has to repeat the clearing procedure before he puts the gun back on the shelf / rack.

And I've seen some get in a hurry and skip the second clearing if a customer simply hands it back, action closed.

Yes, it takes time. Yes, it is a nuisance. But I believe the proper procedure should be taught at gun counters, even at the risk of annoying a few customers.

IMO, if you are annoyed by gun safety, you need to re-think things a little...