Handling firearms in the gun store

[liferider]

I have to agree with the OP. Most gun accidents happen from guns that were unloaded if you were to ask it's owner 30 seconds before the gun went bang. I treat ALL guns as if there is a round in the chamber! I watched a guy in front of me at a gunshow entrance carring in a Berretta pistol. cycle the slide and catch the shell,drop the clip and argue with the cop working security that the gun was unloaded. The idiot was actually waving the gun about. Until the cop said, "put the gun down or go to jail". the cop then picked up the gun cycled the slide and presto. 1 live round flys out. SOB turned white! There are idiots out there who have guns and should not be allowed to have pictures of guns!

 

[ErikO]

My 10 year old had a lot of fun at the gun show when we went a few months ago. At elast until 1/2 way through it when he noticed that half of the guns we looked at before were now pointing at him. He said he understood that they were in a harmless state, he just did not feel comfortable with their barrels pointed at his chest.

My boy has very very good instincts and that proved to me that he is much closer to being able to be a responsable gun owner than we had thought.

On a visit to Cabela's, he wanted to see how to aquire a target with a Crickett they had. He had no issue with where to point the barrell, he picked out a light in the ceiling and showed me he could do it very quickly.

That boy makes his daddy and mommy proud every day, but both of those days had my pride in him at a whole different level. Now to decide if he gets a Red Ryder or a .22lr Crickett this year...

 

[ErikO]

I have to agree with the OP. Most gun accidents happen from guns that were unloaded if you were to ask it's owner 30 seconds before the gun went bang. I treat ALL guns as if there is a round in the chamber! I watched a guy in front of me at a gunshow entrance carring in a Berretta pistol. cycle the slide and catch the shell,drop the clip and argue with the cop working security that the gun was unloaded. The idiot was actually waving the gun about. Until the cop said, "put the gun down or go to jail". the cop then picked up the gun cycled the slide and presto. 1 live round flys out. SOB turned white! There are idiots out there who have guns and should not be allowed to have pictures of guns!

+1!

 

[eazyrider]

I have lost a family member with this kind of mindset, and know several "instructors" that have ND'd rounds in a classroom because they thought they knew it all. One of them recently shot his left pinky finger off after his SECOND negligent discharge, in a classroom.

Seems like some village has lost their story teller. While I am sure you had best intentions, you probably mistook youtube videos for your real life. Glad I didn't inherit those genes.

 

[Marlin60Man]

So when you guys clean your guns, how closely do you pay attention to the four rules? Check it to make sure it's loaded every time you pick it up? Make sure the barrel is pointed in a safe direction ( despite the fact that the gun might not be in operating condition)....

Not being a smart alec, I was just wondering about this. Any time I clean my gun I pretty much religiously check the breech for a round just about any time I pick the gun up and move the muzzle to a different position. However, if at a certain point in cleaning I have the reciever/muzzle separated from the rest of the action, I don't think I really have to worry about where the muzzle is pointed--out of habit though I still practice keeping it pointed away from someone else.

I could save myself time and just assume it was loaded/unloaded, but I understand the part about instilling habits so that's why I do it. However, there are times when I've completely broken a rule, such as when I wanted to see how much fouling there was in the barrel and looked straight down the tube. What do people do at that point?

I mean, let's propose this situation... You're going to buy a used gun, you want to check the barrel, so how do you do that safely without a borescope?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

The last thing I want to hear before I die are the words... I thought it was empty.

Yeah, people get shot with fake plastic stocks every day.

I, like the poster in post 91, agree that I would have been just as concerned at first. But when I got there and realized it was just a piece of plastic, I wouldn't have remained upset. That's why they're there, to test out scopes without sweeping everyone. That and the fact that their merchandise isn't handled so much.

The entire thread has been about gun safety and it seems to be lost on everyone that there was NO GUN INVOLVED WHATSOEVER.
I'm borderline psycho about gun safety, but do we really have to worry about where we point pieces of plastic. How about sticks? Should we never point them at people either?

 

[ErikO]

So when you guys clean your guns, how closely do you pay attention to the four rules? Check it to make sure it's loaded every time you pick it up? Make sure the barrel is pointed in a safe direction ( despite the fact that the gun might not be in operating condition)....

Not being a smart alec, I was just wondering about this. Any time I clean my gun I pretty much religiously check the breech for a round just about any time I pick the gun up and move the muzzle to a different position. However, if at a certain point in cleaning I have the reciever/muzzle separated from the rest of the action, I don't think I really have to worry about where the muzzle is pointed--out of habit though I still practice keeping it pointed away from someone else.

I could save myself time and just assume it was loaded/unloaded, but I understand the part about instilling habits so that's why I do it. However, there are times when I've completely broken a rule, such as when I wanted to see how much fouling there was in the barrel and looked straight down the tube. What do people do at that point?

I mean, let's propose this situation... You're going to buy a used gun, you want to check the barrel, so how do you do that safely without a borescope?

When the barrel is removed from the receiver it is a metal tube with some machining inside. When the action is taken apart it is a pile of metal and springs. When you're doing more than just running a patch down the barrel it is not really a gun any longer.

Once it's back together, it is loaded unless there is something foriegn in the action that keeps bullets from entering.

That's not too hard a concept, is it? The ten year old I referenced above understands this much...

 

[beatledog7]

If I need to look at the bore of one of my rifles, I take the bolt out and it's inert, a tube attached to some wood. I'm conscious of what I'm doing.

 

[dmazur]

So when you guys clean your guns, how closely do you pay attention to the four rules? Check it to make sure it's loaded every time you pick it up?

Yes. Check for unloaded condition every time, then lock action open. (With some exceptions, such as holstering for CCW, when the check is for loaded condition) From previous post -

And guns which are in the process of being cleaned are treated as inert objects. Until they are reassembled. Then they get the "gun store protocol" again.

IMO, the Four Rules are very, very good. But they don't cover "administrative chores", just gun safety while you're using one.

That's the problem. I see people who "almost" understand gun safety at the range, but fail utterly with rules like muzzle discipline, finger off trigger when casing / uncasing. Very, very few transport their guns with chamber flags in the actions. So that makes them loaded until they are in the case. Then it is the functional equivalent of laying on a shelf, isolated from human operation.

A police range we used to use had a "clearing pipe" and the range safety officer related 2 or 3 incidents per week of officers doing the "mag dump/rack the slide" routine backwards and then discharging the chambered round into the pipe.

The range safety officer said they installed it because they just couldn't get the officers to pay attention to what they were doing...

And, I noticed Cabela's now has some kind of clearing pipe at their "door station" (where you're supposed to check in guns that you're returning for some reason.) Apparently folks have brought loaded guns into the stores. Just amazing.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Now with a loaded gun I am very, very safe. But when I know that gun is empty, like I just cleared it. I am not going to be all that concerned about where it is pointed. While I would not train it on anybody, at some point the barrel is going to point at somebody.

So, if you are at a sporting clays range or IDPA or IPSC match, as long as everyone has cleared their weapons, you have no problem with everyone walking around sweeping everybody else? Because we KNOW all the guns are unloaded, right?

Seems like some village has lost their story teller. While I am sure you had best intentions, you probably mistook youtube videos for your real life. Glad I didn't inherit those genes.

Ahh, that's it. You are so much smarter than the rest of us. How could I have missed that?