Other than RKBA, what are your main voting issues?

[billwiese]

My main voting issues besides RKBA...

• Tax cuts: starve Big G. If it goes broke spending, fine.
• No new laws/programs: enough crap on the books.
• Vote against ALL bond issues: no more indebtedness (state level).

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

 

[Malice]

DID YOU ACTUALY JUST SAY THAT GAYS HAVE NO RIGHT TO "FLAUNT IT"?

If a gay man wants to hold hands with his boyfriend in like at the movie theater, he has no right to do so? Or if someone wants to make a tv show or movie about gays and show them kissing, they have no right to?

You sir, Bama, do not care about rights. You hate the rights of those who are different from you, just like the antis.

I do not care what your god tells you. Thats your busniess. If someones god tells them that owning a gun is a sin, does that mean you have no right to "flaunt it" by wearing a Molon Labe hat?

Your moral continuity escapes me.

 

[Bama61]

Clean97GTI wrote----Also, the traditional values things holds very little water with me. People set their own values and they always have. If you want to talk tradition, don't forget that we can observe homosexuality in ancient Greek society and even some in Mesopotamia although Greek history is better documented. In fact, there is evidence to state that homosexuality isn't a behavior at all, but is in fact biological in origin.
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html
I'd suggest a little more research before claiming that homosexuality is a sin just because it doesn't fit your religious views.

Friend,

This issue has nothing to do with MY religious views.

Do not try to tell me that people are born that way because I know that God would not allow a person to be born in a way that He condemns.

I know that homosexuality has been practiced for a very long time. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah because of it.

Do you believe in God? Do you believe the Bible? Can't believe in one without the other and if you believe the Bible, you must believe all of it.

2Timothy 3:16,17

God, in His word said that homosexuality is a sin many, many times. Does God lie? That is one of the things that He cannot do.


Bama61

 

[Carl N. Brown]

main voting issues?

Legal immigration YES
Illegal immigration NO

Anyone who tries to confuse the two, NO

 

[Bama61]

Malice,

I retract the statement "flaunt it". What I am really talking about is the special treatment that they want because of the lifestyle they live. I do not like to see that out in public, but I see lots of things that I do not care to see and I just turn my head.

I do appologize to anyone that I have offended by the flaunt statement. And I do retract that statement.

But, I will stand firmly behind my stance, or I should say God's stance on the subject. And I stand by my statement about the special treatment.

God does not talk to me nor anyone else directly; only through His word which is the Holy Bible. There is nothing in there condemning guns, or weapons and personal protection. There is a lot said about homosexuality and He condemns it.

Bama61

 

[Ivy Mike]

This issue has nothing to do with MY religious views.


Do not try to tell me that people are born that way because I know that God would not allow a person to be born in a way that He condemns.
I know that homosexuality has been practiced for a very long time. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah because of it.
Do you believe in God? Do you believe the Bible? Can't believe in one without the other and if you believe the Bible, you must believe all of it.

2Timothy 3:16,17

God, in His word said that homosexuality is a sin many, many times. Does God lie? That is one of the things that He cannot do.

Nothing to do with you religious views? Your first two sentences are a contradiction.
I'm not telling you people are born that way. There are many sources cited in the second link I posted that are telling you what they are finding. The truth is that we just don't know yet although there is evidence that homosexuality is biological in nature.

No, I don't believe in any god nor do I accept the Bible as accurate. I believe the Bible to be largely a work of fiction and god to be an extension of the individual's own thoughts and mind.
I also find it odd that God wouldn't allow people to be born in a way that he condemns. Perhaps you didn't catch the whole thing about man being born with a sinful nature and requiring salvation. The Bible states that the wages of sin is death. Man is born with a sinful nature...um, your loving god condemns EVERYONE at the time of their birth and only a few will make it into heaven if they find salvation.
In other words, the majority of the Earth's population is going to hell because of something completely outside their control. Your god has condemned his own creation.

 

[John G]

my main voting issues

In no particular order:

• 2nd Amendment
• Pro Life
• Pro Military

 

[ArmedBear]

Do not try to tell me that people are born that way because I know that God would not allow a person to be born in a way that He condemns.

Not very well-versed in Christian apologetics, for a fundie, are we?

According to the doctrine of Original Sin, ALL people are born in a way that God condemns.

if you believe the Bible, you must believe all of it

The Bible is a collection of writings, assembled at various times, by committees. No one sat down and wrote it all, then said "This is what you have to believe." The words in 2 Timothy were written many centuries before there was an official agreement that assembled what we now know as the Bible. They can't be read by anyone serious as meaning what you suggest. Furthermore, the Catholics and Protestants still disagree about which books are to be included, and some lesser-known groups have whole other gospels.

The books included in Bibles were decided by committees, the best known of which met in the 1500s AD, over 1300 years after the last words in the Bible were written. Furthermore, even the Books of Moses were apparently written by several people, and assembled by an editor. This explains why some stories are repeated: the writings include the words of several authors. Here's the best-known book about that, from a guy who taught a class I took in college:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060630353/104-2211038-7455907?v=glance&n=283155

This stuff just ain't that simple; trying to force it to be simple just dredges up conundrums and contradictions.

 

[Gray Peterson]

RealGun, sorry, but you're not going to be able to stop the issue being discussed.

Same gender marriage issues are a modern one due to theocratic statists insisting it so, and the gay rights activists trying to beat them back and push for it on the court level.

Here is my personal beliefs:

Marriage is a religious institution and should NEVER have been a state one. Someone in this thread pointed out that state marriage licensing was a method of discrimination against certain races and intermarrying between races, and of religions, and he is for the most part correct.

"state marriage licensing" is now an albatross around the necks of the entire government and everyone else involved in it. Calls for converting all marriages to civil unions have been summarily dismissed by both sides with almost no comment. The theocratic statists (The Robertsons, the Falwells, and the Dobsons) simply do not believe in any sort of relationship status at all for same gendered couples. It's pure hatred in it's purist form. Compare for a moment the quotes of modern day theocrats with the comments made by those opposed to interracial marriage back in the 1960's. The comments made were almost EXACTLY the same.

If "gay sex" is a sin according to Leviticus, then so is eating shrimp, or wearing blended material fabric. I don't see the idiots in the theocratic statist movement refusing to go to Red Lobster, or boycotting seafood restaurants. This is about money, folks. Raging against "gays destroying America" is another way of rallying the troops about a "new threat to America" and keeping the checks rolling in so they can continue to buy expensive cars and million dollar mansions. These guys would make Tammany Hall look pale by comparison with how much money they're spending on themselves. Sure, they spend a bunch of money on marriage amendments and so on, but that's only to show them that they're doing "something".

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Domestic partnership contracts for asexual couples.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Carl, couldn't that be called a marriage of convenience?

 

[Gray Peterson]

Do you believe in God? Do you believe the Bible? Can't believe in one without the other and if you believe the Bible, you must believe all of it.

Bama, please, you're backing yourself into a corner by making such a statement.

Have you actually read the entirety of Leviticus?

Book of Leviticus

There's a lot of rules in there. Have you violated ANY of them? Do you violate any of them with regularity?

All I gotta say is: Ban shrimp eating!

 

[Bama61]

Friends, Christians are under the Law of Christ. When He died, the Old Law, or Old Testament was nailed to the cross with Him.

The Old Testament is there for our learning as to how things happened to bring about Christ and His sacrifice for our sins. Little babies are as inoccent as a new snowfall. There is no sin in them. We do not inherit Adam and Eve's sin nor to we inherit sins from our direct parents. Little children do things that are wrong, but until the understand right from wrong they are inoccent. They are not saved but safe. Do you think that there is any doubt to a child's eternal home if he/she dies in this condition?

Faith is about believing things that you cannot see. That is the whole foundation of faith. And we get faith from God's Word. Romans 10:17

The Bible was written by about 40 men who where all inspired by God in their writings. God would not allow the Bible to be written incorrectly or by uninspired men because it is the only way that we have today to know His will for us.

And, by the way, homosexuality is condemned under the Law of Christ; the New Testament.

Bama61

 

[Ivy Mike]

Bama, the Old Testament contains the ten commandments. Did those get thrown out as well?

Your view of christianity is pretty skewed.
Perhaps you can still explain this to me. You would say that new babies are totally innocent, but Christ said ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god.
Maybe you could explain this one.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned (Romans 5:12). Christ also said give to Caesar what is caesar's. You are under an obligation to adhere to man's laws until they conflict with god's.

This kinda tells me that a sin nature is present at birth. This is backed up further by Romans 8:5-7
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.

Everyone is born with "the flesh" which battles the spirit. This is the sin nature that man is born with. If all little babies were born pure, they wouldn't need salvation later.

This has little to do with the laws of our country and what you vote for. Good thing too as we already have too many religious quacks out there trying to return us to some imaginary time where men were actually upstanding creatures.
Also, homosexuality is never condemned by Christ...not once. By his followers, yes, but Jesus had to straighten them out from time to time as well.

I would also like to state that I am an atheist and don't believe the Bible to be much more than a collective work of fiction.

 

[GoRon]

Get the government out of the marriage business.

What is called gay rights aren't gay rights. They want access to the same government privileges that other couples have.

The solution is leave marriage to the Churches and let contract law take care of who gets what benefits from whatever arrangement is made.

Most of the divisive issues we face boil down to someone wanting a place at the federal trough like the other guy. Get the government out of the handing out benefits and privileges business and these things wold work themselves out in the market.

 

[JerryM]

Stop abortion.

Outlaw gay marriage and approval of such. Go back to the days when homosexuality was illegal.

Illegal immigration.

International security - strong defense.

Jerry

 

[Gray Peterson]

Outlaw gay marriage and approval of such. Go back to the days when homosexuality was illegal.

Not gonna happen, you'd have millions of us rising up in armed revolt if that were to happen.

 

[Ivy Mike]

hate to say it Lonnie, but its already has happened in many states.
One of which, I'm sad to say, is Nevada.

The state that is voting to approve the legalization of marijuana this November and already has legalized prostitution, gambling and some of the most lax liquor laws around, had a bigoted piece of legislation added to its constitution.

 

[Malice]

JERRYM

Make homosexuality illegal?

The High Road? Sure, yeah.

I thought High Roaders cared about rights.

I am not homosexual, but if I decide tomorrow I want to engage in sex with another man, and you come to my house and try and stop me, GUESS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO YOU?

If people like you decided tomorrow that all the gays in America should be rounded up, I would treat it no differently than if someone decided to round up all the Jews, or Cathoics, or whoever.

Do you realize there are several RKBA acticvist posters on this board who are homosexual? Would you make them criminals and take away their RKBA because of their "deviancy"?

People like you... are odd.

 

[F4GIB]

RKBA only. It the best litmus test there is.

I'm a single issue voter.

 

[GoRon]

The whole "gay rights" movement is a canard. They have all the rights everyone else does.

They want ACCEPTANCE and PRIVILEGE.

 

[Ivy Mike]

GoRon, your first statement just isn't true.

The only place that homosexual marriage is recognized is MA. Straight people can get married anywhere they want. Marriage is basically a shall-issue type thing...unless you're gay. Then you're forbidden from getting married and even if you do marry in MA, it isn't recognized anywhere else.

Acceptance is not something that anyone is obligated to provide to anyone else. I am free to dislike somebody for any reason I choose.

Privilege? What privilege might that be? Everyone else seems to have the right to get married. Is it a privilege just because someone might be gay?
State-sanctioned bigotry is wrong today just as state-sanctioned racism was wrong in the 50's and 60s.

 

[STAGE 2]

the mods will be closing this thread in 3...2...1...

But before they do here's my loose change. As far as my issues go, abortion, fiscal policy, and defense are at the top. Of course everything depends upon the office we're talking about since city council and US senate are widely different. Lately the whole immigration thing has found its way into my list as well.

As for gay marriage, well, I can't say that I see the huge plight that is apparently comparable to the civil rights movement. As it stands now, gay individuals can freely associate, hang out with, fall in love with, have extended relationships with, have consensual "encounters" with anyone of their choosing.

They can go out in public, hold hands with their partner, eat whereever they want and do what ever they want, without any fear of retribution. Thus, to say that the gay issue is in any way similar Jim Crow is really disingenuous.

As for the state sanctioning marriage, well I think its a bit dumb, and a bit not. I'm married and had to jump through all of the hoops and pay all of the fees to do so. Doing so, however isn't what made me married. Standing before the pastor, family and friends, and God, and making that promise is what made me married.

Should the state decide to outlaw all marriages tomorrow, that wouldn't make me any less married that I am today. Marriage wasnt created by government and it cant be dissolved by one either. As a result, gay individuals are free to go down to the church of their choosing, get hitched, and live a happy life.

The state however, has the authority to sanction things that are in its interest. Marriage is beneficial to society for a variety of reasons that are beyond the scope of this topic. Many, if not all of these reasons don't apply to gay couples due to the the fact that they are of the same gender. As a result, the state has the right to not recognize gay marriages.

Last time I checked the constitution, there wasn't anything in there about marriage. And please don't give me anything about penumbras either. It says what it says and does not speak to marriage. As a result, the government is free to pass laws regulating marriage. If you don't like it then pass an amendment.

Gay individuals are free to frolick the streets and live their life how they choose and thats fine with me. However the government is under no obligation to validate their choices.

 

[Kim]

There is no right to a State sanctioned marriage for anyone. There is no right for a Chuch sanctioned marriage. There are laws regulating State sanctioned marriages. There are State social engineering by laws to encourage marriage.(although much less than there used to be). I see the Gay marriage movement as a canard also. It is really about forcing what they think will be acceptance of their lifestyle. Might happen in 100 years. Just read some of the Professors of Queer Studies and Feminism at our so called elite Universities. This has been planned for decades. I have no sympathy for their plan or their idea of a good society.

 

[ArmedBear]

It doesn't matter worth a hill of beans whether someone is born gay.

If you're not hurting someone else, you have the right to do whatever you want, under human law.

And as for the religious side of it...

God's law is God's business. In Romans 12, (the same letter in which Paul offhandedly condemns homosexuality), Paul writes, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

Common-sense interpretation: if homosexuality is wrong, then that is God's business. It is WRONG for a Christian to try to take God's place and exact that punishment.