Using Beretta 92 Slide Release: Damage?

[JTQ]

You might enjoy this video from Ben Stoeger. At the time, he was winning national USPSA championships with beretta 92's, and this video is about the wear experience. After, as the title says, a few hundred thousand rounds.

He releases the slide with the release.

Here's the link

 

[dodo bird]

Why is Ben Stoeger not shooting a Stoeger?

 

[ATLDave]

Because reasonably-priced over-under shotguns aren't competitive in USPSA handgun matches?

(FWIW, he switched to Tanfoglios/EAA Witnesses a few years ago.)

 

[Big Mike]

It will not cause damage, it was designed to be used that way. If your concerned about potential damage, learn to lube it property and how to change out some springs and you'll be shooting it forever.

 

[dboatrig]

Sorry to resurrect older thread. The slide on my Beretta 85f (similar metallurgy to your 92, I'm guessing) no longer reliably stays locked open on last round. Most of the time it stays locked, but about every 3rd magazine it does not. The magazine follower is not worn, and I tried replacing the mag spring, did not help. The slide stop lever is not visibly worn, but the notch/hole (whatever it's called) on the slide that engages the slide stop lever is visibly worn, rounded, and unfinished shiny exposed steel. I attribute this wear to using the slide stop lever to feed the first round. I have owned this gun since new, and I've probably put about 1000 rounds through it over the years. I'm kind of bummed about this issue, and I will no longer use the slide stop as a release on any gun I shoot, despite what others may say to the contrary. Some guns may have harder metal, better design, etc, but to me it's just as easy to pull the slide back manually and avoid the potential wear.

 

[BSA1]

Only 1,000 rounds? I would be bummed too.

Just checked the 92 I am carrying at the moment and I cannot even see any wear on the slide notch. I always use the slide release lever. I don't baby my 92's but I also don't abuse them by slamming the magazine too hard in the gun. I suggest you contact Beretta about it and see what they have to say about it.

 

[dboatrig]

Thanks for the info BSA1. Maybe there's a difference between the design of the 85 380 and the 92 9mm that cause the 380 to wear quicker, or maybe mine had weak heat treating for something, not sure. I just emailed Beretta customer service to ask about getting it fixed. I bought the gun in 1991, so they won't warranty it of course, but I'd pay to have it repaired. I love that little Italian gem, it was the first gun I ever bought just out of college. It oozes quality, aside from this one issue.

I tried attaching a picture, hopefully it worked.

 

[Tallball]

I bought my "primitive" Taurus version in 1989 or 1990. I always use the slide release. After I don't know how many thousands of rounds, nothing has worn out yet.

 

[ATLDave]

dboatrig, have you taken a close look at the lever/control itself? Did it get rounded? Or chipped? Might be an easier fix than messing with the slide itself.

 

[herrwalther]

Compared to others I worked with, my M9s were rather abused when it came time for qualification and training. I was also friends with the unit armorers. Of all the things that could and often did break on M9s, the slide stop was not anywhere near the top of the list.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Slide stop lever should not be used to chamber round after magazine insertion. Beretta is dated design newer guns have safety leve[r]s mounted on the frame or no safety levers at all. Note Taurus which is Beretta clone has safety on the frame.

Where the safety lever is located has little to do with the modernity of the design, as many of the oldest guns didn't have safety levers, didn't hold the slide open after the last round fired, etc. Newer models can go either way -- and many striker-fired guns don't have safeties and, arguably, don't need them. The S&W Third Gen semi-autos had slide-mounted safeties and decockers, and they were certainly a newer design than the Beretta. Beretta also offers models with frame-mounted safeties.

The Beretta 92/M9 is one of a few weapons intentionally designed to allow the gun to close the slide over a chambered round which MIGHT be handy in some situations. They brag about it in some of their promotional materials. And as noted above, the U.S. DoD now teaches the use of the slide stop to release the slide in handgun training. (This change in the training program came about after a lot of failures to go into battery in both Iraq and Afghanistan, when doing mag changes during combat.) Cold weather, harsh environments, gloves, etc., probably made a clean release of the slide more difficult when using a "slingshot" release, and the hand-over technique can be problematic with the M9, since a big hand can decock the weapon as that technique is used.)

You have to shoot a LOT of rounds to wear out a slide stop or the slide...

 

[usp9]

Having personally worn out a Makarov slide release in less than 500 rounds of shooting, I was just trying to find out if Berettas could have the same issues.

Your Mak part wore out after using it 60 or so times? Really? That sounds unlikely. More to that story I suspect.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Your Mak part wore out after using it 60 or so times? Really? That sounds unlikely. More to that story I suspect.

You're wrong, there is no more. It is a known thing with the Makarov. The slide stop is supposed to be the wear part on them, and on mine, it did wear. They make them this way so the slide itself doesn't wear down where it interacts with the slide release. FAR cheaper to replace a worn slide release than the entire slide! It didn't "wear out" after 500 rounds, but would not reliably keep the slide locked to the rear when changing magazines. Upon disassembly there was visibly bare rounded metal on the slide stop. I no longer use it as a slide release, instead using the sling shot method, and the problem has not reoccurred since. Keep in mind this was an unissued, factory new in the cosmoline pistol.

The design of the Beretta 92 just makes it so natural to use the slide stop as a release, and that's how I was trained to use it in the military. I was just concerned with the long term consequences of this, hence why I made this thread. It appears that the Beretta 92 is in fact designed and made to use the stop as a release, which is good news. Thanks guys!

 

[Mizar]

Makarov's slide stop (release, whatever) is a relatively thin stamped steel part that doubles as an ejector and it is actually harder than the slide - the design calls it to be that way. I suspect that you got a part with bad heat treating, because worn out slide stops are seldom seen. Cracked slides, worn out sears and sear springs that cause auto fire - those things happen if you shoot it a lot. But it takes much, much more than 60 rounds to wear out a slide stop on a Makarov pistol.

 

[dboatrig]

dboatrig, have you taken a close look at the lever/control itself? Did it get rounded? Or chipped? Might be an easier fix than messing with the slide itself.

The lever itself looks ok to me. Compared to online pics of the lever, mine looks the same.

I got a reply from Beretta. They didn't comment on my question, they just said to mail it in for them to diagnose. First I'm going to try a brand new magazine. If I still have the issue, I will probably send it in to see what they say.

After reading about others using the slide lever to feed first round into battery, at least I don't feel so guilty about doing the same. Thanks for the suggestions and info, much appreciated.

 

[Tirod]

Using the slide release to chamber a round on any one particular gun is not a proven test to stop using it on other guns. Each has it's own dynamic application and has been specifically designed for it's users.

Making blanket statements about their use like that isn't sound thinking. Just because the triggers on some Remington 700's are suspected to have issues doesn't mean triggers on all bolt action rifles are suspect. Just because certain Glock models are known to crack under the ejection port shooting up to 100,000 rounds a year doesn't mean 1911's have that issue. They have plenty of their own which they don't share with Glocks at all.

If you choose to use the slide release and it works for you - which it does on the M9 and is recommended on a lot of firearms, it's up to you. It is the recommended way to reload the M16 - and trying to "slingshot" the bolt on that isn't, as it will create FTF issues.

Don't make blanket decisions about how to use and operate firearms. Each is unique and trying to force them all to work the same way is a recipe for disaster. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[lysanderxiii]

The S&W Third Gen semi-autos had slide-mounted safeties and decockers, and they were certainly a newer design than the Beretta.

The S&W SA/DA pistol design dates to 1949, that predated to Beretta 92 by a few decades . . .

As to the Beretta being "one of the few" pistols designed to used the slide release as a slide release is equally erroneous.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The S&W Third Gen semi-autos had slide-mounted safeties and decockers, and they were certainly a newer design than the Beretta.

The S&W SA/DA pistol design dates to 1949, that predated to Beretta 92 by a few decades . . .

You're right that the development of S&W SA/DA design (and the decocker/safety) pre-dated the M92. I shouldn't have written "newer design." When I wrote that, I was thinking about the entire 3rd Gen gun line, not the DA/SA and decocker mechanism -- and in hindsight, I'm not even sure I got that point right, either.

As you indicate, the DA/SA action (and safety/decocker) WAS introduced with the 1st Gen. Model 39 which S&W began developing in 1949 and first sold in 1955. A double-stack version ( the Model 59) -- which is closer to the Beretta design -- wasn't introduced until around 1971.

About the only thing new in the Beretta 92 was the DA/SA mechanism (a big deal) and the double-stack magazine. Most of the other features seen in the M92 had been around for a long time, having evolved from earlier Beretta (and Walther) designs: The M1923 was the source of the open slide design, the locking block/barrel came from the Walther P38 (which was designed in 1938). The alloy frame came later. Beretta was one of the first to use an alloy frame with the M1951 (introduced in 1949), but those early frames had problems and Beretta quickly switched to steel. (Walther did their own alloy frames with the P1 version of the P38 in the '60s.)

As to the Beretta being "one of the few" pistols designed to used the slide release as a slide release is equally erroneous.

Someone else must have written that. I did write that the Model 92 was one of the few designs that could let the slide close over a chambered round without risking damage to the extractor.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

FAR cheaper to replace a worn slide release than the entire slide! It didn't "wear out" after 500 rounds, but would not reliably keep the slide locked to the rear when changing magazines. Upon disassembly there was visibly bare rounded metal on the slide stop. I no longer use it as a slide release, instead using the sling shot method, and the problem has not reoccurred since. Keep in mind this was an unissued, factory new in the cosmoline pistol.

Did you replace the worn slide stop? If not, I don't understand how RELEASING the slide differently (slingshoting it rather than pressing the slide stop lever) could make the existing problem of the slide not locking back on empty -- caused by a worn slide stop -- suddenly go away?

Finding an unissued, factory new Makarov, rather than a re-arsenaled Makarov (which can look like new) was a marvelous find. That said, Bulgaria did send a bunch of new Maks to the U.S. some years ago, and they were pretty nicely made weapons. Every one I saw was NEW, and I don't think I've seen a Milsurp Bulgarian Mak.

 

[SwampWolf]

I've had numerous Beretta 92's. Never accidentally engaged the safety while racking the slide. And in the Vickers video, it looks like the shooter intentionally did it.

Then again, I don't come over the top to rack it. It looks uncomfortable. I just pinch it from the rear and release.

The most common way the safety can be inadvertently engaged on pistols like the Beretta Model 92 (including most "Third Generation" Smith & Wesson pistols) is when a stovepipe malfunction is cleared by sweeping the off/support hand over the top of the receiver in order to dislodge the offending case. Shooters should practice clearing malfunction drills so that they become aware of and prepare for such an eventuality in a self-defense scenario.

 

[Proud Southern Son]

Been using the 92 platform since the late eighties/early nineties. Went through a brief time a few years ago, while I was also using Glocks, where I would overhand the slide on all my auto pistols for commonality in training. I went back to using the slide release on my Berettas and Sigs, and prefer it for both speed and feel.

In the interest of total disclosure, I did have one slide release issue a few years ago. I’ll describe it, and let others make up their own minds about importance. I found a US made Inox 96 in the used case at a local shop. It was in fair shape, but obviously used. Serial # indicated 1999 manufacture date and it had all stainless controls. I took it home, did a quick clean and lube, and went straight to shoot it. I had full knowledge the recoil spring needed replacing, along with who knows what else, but I was excited about my find and couldn’t wait to try it. On about the third or fourth round the slide release sheared completely in two where the post meets the lever. To this day, I have no idea why. I didn’t closely inspect the gun before shooting, which I should have. I’ve heard the theory that Inox parts are more “brittle”. The gun may have been shot a lot and neglected for years. The previous owner may have done something during assembly or disassembly that compromised the part. I will never know. I know I’ve had four Inox guns, with Inox parts, and this is the only issue I had in over 25 years and lots of mag changes. Interestingly, that same 96 is now my most carried gun (LEO) and I trust it completely. I have also inspected and updated every spring and small part possible. And I still use the slide release.