Another idiot plays with gun, shoots bystander

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Hypnogator

Hypnogator

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http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/us/washington-movie-theater-shooting/index.html

Not anyone's definition of a responsible gun owner. Apparently this idiot went to see "13 Hours" while drunk, then, naturally, started playing with his gun in the theater. Unsurprisingly, it went off, striking the woman sitting in front of him in the torso, fortunately apparently not fatally.

Proposed 5th Rule of Gun Safety: Your weapon should never be taken out of its holster unless needed to respond to a deadly threat, on a firing range, or when at home for storage or cleaning. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
don't need any more nanny state rules. we have laws in place that will (should) take care of this idiot.

murf
 
Hypnogator said:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/us/washington-movie-theater-shooting/index.html

Not anyone's definition of a responsible gun owner. Apparently this idiot went to see "13 Hours" while drunk, then, naturally, started playing with his gun in the theater. Unsurprisingly, it went off, striking the woman sitting in front of him in the torso, fortunately apparently not fatally.

Proposed 5th Rule of Gun Safety: Your weapon should never be taken out of its holster unless needed to respond to a deadly threat, on a firing range, or when at home for storage or cleaning. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
No need for a 5th rule. If he'd followed the other rules, he wouldn't of hurt anyone. He pointed it at something he shouldn't of, and he touched the trigger when he shouldn't have. More rules/laws can't fix stupid.
 
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His father later called 911 and said his distraught son told him the gun discharged after he dropped it in the theater, authorities said.

But police painted a different picture.

"We have witnesses that say he came into the theater and appeared intoxicated. He went in and took a seat in theater No. 9 and was fumbling with a pistol when it went off and struck someone sitting in front of him," David Leibman with the Renton Police Department told the affiliate.

After the father's call, police went to the home and arrested the suspect without incident.
Click to expand...

Good for the father calling the police on his moronic offspring. The idiot will probably face a range of "felony stupid" charges.
 
Hypnogator said:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/us/washington-movie-theater-shooting/index.html

Not anyone's definition of a responsible gun owner. Apparently this idiot went to see "13 Hours" while drunk, then, naturally, started playing with his gun in the theater. Unsurprisingly, it went off, striking the woman sitting in front of him in the torso, fortunately apparently not fatally.

Proposed 5th Rule of Gun Safety: Your weapon should never be taken out of its holster unless needed to respond to a deadly threat, on a firing range, or when at home for storage or cleaning. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

Rules #1, #2, and #3 cover this...no need for a new rule.
 
Any check on the numb head's carry permit status?

My hometown paper started checking and reporting the carry permit status of persons charged with criminal or negligent use of firearms. No carry permit holders. They seem to have stopped reporting that aspect. But when they did, the criminal or reckless user was not a carry permit holder. They were the kind of people who would carry without a permit regardless of the law.

Added: 29 y.o. suspect booked, name not released.
http://komonews.com/news/local/police-medics-responding-to-movie-theater-shooting-in-renton
 
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I hope they cancel his permit at the very least, then some jail time. After that no CCW for ever.
 
He will most likely lose his carry permit. The local news says they plan to investigate this as felony assault, if they make that stick, no more guns for him.

BTW, my wife and I walk to this theater from our apartment, it's a long block away.
 
Link please.

Anyone got a link to a reliable source news report that states this guy in Washington State had a carry permit?

The only stories I have read:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/us/washington-movie-theater-shooting/index.html
http://komonews.com/news/local/police-medics-responding-to-movie-theater-shooting-in-renton

KomoNews says he was observed "fumbling" with the gun when it discharged.


UPDT: Thanks to Hypnogator Post #15 for the link
King 5 News 22 Jan 2016 12:17pm Renton theater shooter held on felony assault
"Renton police said the suspect had a permit to carry a concealed weapon."
 
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Warp said:
Shaq said:
He probably didn't receive enough "Training."
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Who are you and why did you join THR to tell us that training is bad and unhelpful?
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Seriously. Why are you bringing your ignorant advice into another thread? We get it; you think gun owners don't need training. We also get it; you're an instructor who has never received any training and just got super-good with a gun through osmosis. Good for you. I'd be curious to observe your gun handling skills and shooting skills in person, because in my line of work I've met hundreds of old, experienced shooters who "didn't need any training" who were horribly unsafe with a firearm, and their skills were mediocre at best.

But you want to argue that training definitely wouldn't have helped? OK, I can argue against that. So part of being in the firearms world is surrounding yourself with other people who are skilled and experienced. Proper gun handling can be strongly reinforced through social pressure. One thing a lot of newer concealed carriers seem to want to do is pull out their carry gun for various reasons. But if those people are strongly discouraged from doing that and then it's reinforced through social pressure, it can make a huge difference.

As a gun shop manager, I see it all the time. New employees and customers alike get talking about their carry gun, and the next think you know someone is whipping out a loaded gun. Now, usually they clear it properly, but it's still not OK.

So imagine if this guy had had it drummed into him that pulling out a carry gun is not OK. Even if drunk, it's possible he would have been less likely to pull out his gun; that's the power of training reinforced with social pressure. Sure, common sense helps too, but it's not always effective by itself. I know that if I were to get drunk while carrying, I would still leave my carry gun in the holster; part of that is common sense, but most of it is the values I've learned through being in the military and in the gun world.

This guy obviously is an idiot who has very little common sense. But imagine he'd had gun safety drummed into him by Marine drill instructors or even by forceful friends who derided him when he was unsafe: it's very possible that even in a drunken state, he might have left his gun alone.
 
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Just so everyone is aware, Washington State is a "Shall Issue" state and you do not even need to declare a reason for wanting it. You just go to your local PD office, pay $50, and get one.
 
Certainly doesn't do any responsible owner any favors. Of course the media will be all over it calling for more laws, etc. I can say with all honesty working for an FFL though there are a significant number of people who should be no where near a gun let alone a car or anything else that could potentially be dangerous. Unfortunately nothing is idiot-proof and there's no real way to stop such things from happening eventually.
 
Is the lady patient doing better?
Is she expected to have a normal recovery?

Let's not forget the victim here, as CCW legalities are analyzed and interpreted.
 
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I would be shocked if they don't already have a law against concealed carriers being intoxicated. In Virginia you can't even order a drink at all. Although that's better than it used to be, when you couldn't even enter an alcohol serving establishment.
 
I don't know of any laws about being intoxicated whilst carrying, but I do know you can't even carry into a liquor establishment here (any 21+ area).
 
The victim, as of tonight, was in stable condition.

This knucklehead, according to my information, wasn't even using a holster -- his gun was being carried in the waistband of his pants.

And yeah, he reportedly has a valid CPL (not for long). Predictably, this incident has the local anti-gun faction frothing at the mouth ...

Packing. In public. Drunk. No holster. This loser, along with the usual others of his ilk, does irreparable damage to our cause.
 
Theohazard said:
Seriously. Why are you bringing your ignorant advice into another thread? We get it; you think gun owners don't need training. We also get it; you're an instructor who has never received any training and just got super-good with a gun through osmosis. Good for you. I'd be curious to observe your gun handling skills and shooting skills in person, because in my line of work I've met hundreds of old, experienced shooters who "didn't need any training" who were horribly unsafe with a firearm, and their skills were mediocre at best.

But you want to argue that training definitely wouldn't have helped? OK, I can argue against that. So part of being in the firearms world is surrounding yourself with other people who are skilled and experienced. Proper gun handling can be strongly reinforced through social pressure. One thing a lot of newer concealed carriers seem to want to do is pull out their carry gun for various reasons. But if those people are strongly discouraged from doing that and then it's reinforced through social pressure, it can make a huge difference.

As a gun shop manager, I see it all the time. New employees and customers alike get talking about their carry gun, and the next think you know someone is whipping out a loaded gun. Now, usually they clear it properly, but it's still not OK.

So imagine if this guy had had it drummed into him that pulling out a carry gun is not OK. Even if drunk, it's possible he would have been less likely to pull out his gun; that's the power of training reinforced with social pressure. Sure, common sense helps too, but it's not always effective by itself. I know that if I were to get drunk while carrying, I would still leave my carry gun in the holster; part of that is common sense, but most of it is the values I've learned through being in the military and in the gun world.

This guy obviously is an idiot who has very little common sense. But imagine he'd had gun safety drummed into him by Marine drill instructors or even by forceful friends who derided him when he was unsafe: it's very possible that even in a drunken state, he might have left his gun alone.
Click to expand...
If you believe a marine drill instructor's "training" would have prevented him from deciding to get drunk & carry his gun into the theater, you're living in a dream world. And, you don't know if he had any military training.
 
Shaq said:
If you believe a marine drill instructor's "training" would have prevented him from deciding to get drunk & carry his gun into the theater, you're living in a dream world.
Click to expand...
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You have zero experience with any kind of training, and so you assume that training is worthless? You say you're an instructor; if so, I feel sorry for your students.

I explained to you in this post in another thread how Marine Corps training is successful in drumming safe weapons handling skills into otherwise foolish and reckless people. I never once claimed it would have prevented this incident, but I do think it would have made it far less likely. Did you miss my point, or do you think I'm lying?

Shaq, I've spent many, many hours on these and other gun forums, and it's rare that someone shows up who is as willfully ignorant as you are. You appear to be dealing in absolutes: You think training is completely useless and you seem to think I'm arguing that training would have completely prevented this. But no, I'm not; only a fool would look at this in absolutes. Proper training and peer pressure could have prevented this, but there's no guarantee.
 
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