Lionheart LH9 Threaded barrel

bersa? huh, thought daewoo/s&t motiv made them same as the dp-51/k5....but modified a bit.

it's like a 5906 sort of.....how that comparable to a bersa? what am i missing in the lgs guys theory?

These are not low quality, but low trade in value because people are not familiar with the name. Older used samples in very good to excellent condition can be had for <$300.

Stay away from GUNSHOP EMPLOYEES who tell you the Lionheart (or the DP-51) is a low-quality, Bersa-like gun. (Bersa's are that bad, for that matter.) Those guys clearly don't know what they're talking about. The DP-51 (which is basically the same gun as the Lionheart) is a fine weapon, and I assume the Lionheart is too.

I've had several DaeWoos, kept them for a while [2xDP51 and 1xDH40), and then moved on. But I've done that with SIGs, Berettas, and Smiths, too. I thought the DP-51 looked and felt like a S&W 3rd Gen gun built by SIG: good quality, solid design. I love the tri-action trigger. (A hinged hammer.)

The Lionheart/DP-51/DH-40 are the ONLY pistols I've heard of or handled that had this interesting (tri-action) trigger. I think LH has a different name for it -- but as best I can tell, it works the same.

For those unfamiliar with the design, it has three modes: 1) standard DA start. 2) standard SA start (cocked and locked), and 3) a hybrid SA mode in which you manually cock the hammer, and flip it forward -- but you need not set the safety..

While this sounds dangerous, it isn't. There is takeup in this 3rd mode, which flips the hammer hammer back -- and it is clearly felt in your hand (and trigger finger), very easy to control, and then a bit like the standard SA mode, but less noticeably trigger action than DA. The safety can be engaged in any of the three modes if it's a concern to the shooter.

I've bought, traded, and sold a lot of guns over the years and (when I didn't sell for financial need), of those guns, the only ones I really regret selling were my first DP-51 and a CZ-40B. Mags were sometime a problem, but the S&W 59 series mags worked in the 9mm (and could be made to work in the .40 version), and stuck out maybe an 1/8" more than stock mags. I suspect you can get mags now (at least for the 9mm) from Lionheart.

That weapon is easily equal to third generation S&W.

Those are great guns. We have a Daewoo and it is a neat, reliable pistol. S&w mags work great.

The Lionheart/DP-51/DH-40 are the ONLY pistols I've heard of or handled that had this interesting (tri-action) trigger.

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Para-Ordnance had something similar that they called the LDA -- Light Double Action. Most considered it to be a solution looking for a problem -- appealed to whose who thought a cocked and locked 1911 was too "scary".

wally said:

Para-Ordnance had something similar that they called the LDA -- Light Double Action. Most considered it to be a solution looking for a problem -- appealed to whose who thought a cocked and locked 1911 was too "scary".

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They work quite differently. The LDA is a true double-action pistol, but it's unique, too. (They probably should call it LDAO -- the trigger function is sort of like a Glock (and some other striker-fired guns -- Double Action Only with help.)

The Para LDA action seems to use a pre-tensioned hammer spring on a 3rd Gen S&W; the difference is that the LDA never reverts to full single-action mode as the S&W DA/SA models (or the Lionheart/DaeWoo) do. With the LDA, the hammer spring is cocked by the slide or by hammer movement. A second hammer (smaller, and not visible) that rides alongside the visible hammer actually does the work. The visible hammer never goes to the rear. You cock the weapon by racking the slide or by firing the gun. Every shot is the same -- the equivalent of a light double action. Subsequent slide movement pretensions the hammer spring for the next shot. (With a missfire, you could cock the hammer again by cocking the hammer.) The gun is probably not fully cocked (I've never heard an explanation of how completely the hammer spring is tensioned), but the hammer is forward and doesn't frighten people.

The best explanation of the LDA I've seen is here: http://www.m1911.org/technic32.htm

The LionHeart and DaeWoo has only one hammer, which is hinged. The design gives the shooter three options and the different, third action type -- which relies on the hinged hammer only works when you manually cock the hammer and flip it forward . All following shots are single single action.

fn had a hi power called the sfs for a short while that was similar to the daewoo system.

JHB said:

fn had a hi power called the sfs for a short while that was similar to the daewoo system.

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It, too, is different. but I'd argue the difference is more cosmetic than functional -- as you MUST still release the safety before it can be fired. The weapon is still carried cocked and locked. It simply seems to be a way to carry the weapon hammer down, but doesn't seem to change anything but the hammer position -- the gun works the same, and the shooter must go through the same motions. (It functions just like the standard FN or Browning Hi-Power and all trigger pulls are the same. It just looks different when the safety is engaged.)

I think you can still get a SFS conversion kit from Cylinder & Slide. It's apparently just a parts swaps, but it does add some extra parts. (Members on the FN forum talk about the SFS version and one or two consider it their favorite BHP, but I really don't understand why... (Maybe there's something about the SFS functionality that I've missed...) I have a BHP and a couple of other FN handguns, so visit the FNH forum regularly.

From another website:


Unlike the Lionheart/DaeWoo, there aren't any other "action" options. No true DA if you want it (and no second strike if you think that's important). No conventional SA start if you want it (but you probably don't, if you installed it or bought a gun with it already installed). With the LH/DW, the safety can be used, or not used in any mode. It makes sense to use it in the traditional DA mode.

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Whenever I encounter a store employee who's showing me something they sell while telling me that it's a POS, I look them right in the eye and ask them "If it's a POS, why do you stock & sell them?"

Sam

WOO DP 51 is Great

mine has over 25,000 rounds and nary a glitch, and it will eat anything.
(looks new BTW)

SHOOT1SAM said:

Whenever I encounter a store employee who's showing me something they sell while telling me that it's a POS, I look them right in the eye and ask them "If it's a POS, why do you stock & sell them?"

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Because sometimes there's still a pretty big demand for POS guns. When customers are constantly asking for a certain gun that you don't carry, and you're constantly special ordering that gun because people want it, doesn't it make sense just to stock it?

For the most part, our shop doesn't stock POS guns. But we stock a few. We carry the Walther CCP, which -- in my opinion -- is a not a good gun. We've seen a disproportionate number of CCPs that had all sorts of problems and had to be sent back. But people still want it.

The key is not offering an unwanted opinion. If someone comes into the store and wants to buy a CCP without asking my opinion, I'll sell it to them without comment. And if they ask my opinion I'll give it to them, and I'll do it as tactfully as possible. After all, there might be a CCP owner nearby who likes his and hasn't had problems.

As for the Lionheart, it is not a POS. I'm not a huge fan of the design, but that's just my personal preference. We don't stock them only because they don't sell.

samuelcmm said:

@Theohazard I was considering buying a CCP after I shot my brothers what problems have you seen with it

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Well, the very first one I saw was brought in by our Walther rep, and it had a faulty reset: If you let the trigger out to a certain spot when shooting and then tried to press the trigger again, the trigger would go dead. This wasn't just a false reset where you press the trigger and nothing happens but you let the trigger out all the way and you can press the trigger again, this was actually a dead trigger that required racking the slide to reset.

After that, we started seeing a large number of shooters on our range who had stoppage problems that didn't seem to be related to limp-wristing or to ammo. Then there were several cases where the gun locked up upon disassembly and had to be sent back to Walther. Those issues -- combined with a very gritty trigger and overall cheap construction -- make me not want to recommend the CCP. But I guess those issues aren't all that surprising considering the gun isn't actually made by Walther, it's made by their parent company Umarex, who primarily makes Airsoft guns, pellet guns, and cheap .22 replicas.

I picked up a ANIB LH9 recently on a local forum. Nice gun, and accurate -- but like several other guns I've gotten recently, it had a very heavy trigger. I've installed a lighter S&W hammer springs (for the 5906 models) and that helped a little, and have dry-fired it a lot, too, and it's getting better. (The S&W hammer spring is a bit longer than the LH9 spring, so I can possibly cut a coil or two off and try it again.)

I tried a 16 lb. CZ hammer spring and it made for a BEAUTIFUL trigger pull, but it didn't always ignite the primer. I'll keep playing around until I find a combination that does what I want. I've got a bunch of different hammer springs from different guns, and they're all fairly similar.

The DP-51s and DH-40 that I owned had lighter triggers. This LH9 trigger is heavy, but breaks cleanly, with no grunge, etc.

The original pistol was the Daewoo Precision Industries K-5.

Daewoo Precision Industries made USA civilian market versions of the K-5 called the DP-51 (9x19mm) and the DH-40 (.40S&W).
Daewoo Precision Industries also made a compact version called the DP-51C (9x19mm).
Daewoo Precision Industries was developing a .45ACP variant called the DH-45. But, plans for it were first put on hold (due to the Asian stock market crashing) and then completely discontinued when the Daewoo Group (which owned Daewoo Precision Industries) went bankrupt and the ROK Gov seized the conglomerate.

During this financial turmoil, all Daewoo Precision Industries firearms were no longer being made for the USA civilian market.

In the aftermath, Daewoo Precision Industries was split from the Daewoo Group. It was then acquired by S&T. Which was then renamed S&T Daewoo.
During this time, S&T Daewoo concentrated on Gov/Mil/LE contracts only and discontinued all civilian market designed firearms.
S&T Daewoo continued to make the K-5 for the ROK Military.

Several years ago, S&T Daewoo reorganized (under new management) and is now S&T Motiv.
S&T Motiv contined to make the K-5. But, due to new pistol trials for the ROK Military, they made an improved variant called the SDP-9.
During this time, Lionheart Industries made a deal with S&T Motiv to import the K-5 and SDP-9 to the USA as the LH9 and LH9-MKII. They also got S&T Motiv to remake the DP-51C as the LH9C.

jhb said:

bersa? huh, thought daewoo/s&t motiv made them same as the dp-51/k5....but modified a bit.

it's like a 5906 sort of.....how that comparable to a bersa? what am i missing in the lgs guys theory?

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It's not anything like a Bersa. I'd avoid a local gun store employee who doesn't know anything about a gun he's showing you. They are excellent firearms with a long history of reliability, accuracy and quality. Their customer service is excellent too.

[SIZE=3 said:

As for the Lionheart, it is not a POS. I'm not a huge fan of the design, but that's just my personal preference. We don't stock them only because they don't sell.

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You have to understand the gun to know how to sell it. The company will provide you with tools to assist you in educating the customer on the benefits of each feature. Once you get a customer interested but they're not yet ready to drop the $$ to buy one, hand them a brochure and ask them to do their own research and look it up themselves. Many come back after looking at the reviews and buy it. But they won't remember to do it if you don't give them a brochure, for some reason. I've sold literally HUNDREDS of these guns, and people are very happy with them. I own several myself, and have 9100 rounds thru my compact.

samuelcmm said:

So I bought a Lionheart LH9 a while back despite a few gun shop employees telling me they are nothing but a bersa. I absolutely love it and I was extreemly disapointed to find out there is no threaded barrel for it from them or aftermarket so I posted on their Facebook page and they responded this morning and said they should have a threaded barrel out in a few months so if there is anyone else out there who is waiting for one we are in luck

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A threaded barrel is honestly in the works. I talked to them about it some time ago, and the challenge is making one so you don't have to add an extra part to the gun in order to remove the barrel. Because the LionHeart utilizes a lug locking mechanism rather than a breech lock, the barrel hole in the slide is much smaller because there's no barrel "tip". Since the threaded portion makes the barrel longer, you can't install it or remove it without first removing the bushing at the end of the slide. As is, the bushing is not designed to be user-removable, so they'd have to create a bushing system not unlike the one on the CZ97B. At this point, they're deciding which is the better way to go.

A bit off topic here but one of my all time favorite pistols is the Daewoo DP52. It's what a Bersa T-22 could be if it were made of quality materials and by precise metal workers. The Daewoo makes me swoon.... the Bersa makes me cuss. Big difference.

Congrats on the new Lionheart. It's a fine pistol made by people that know how to make great guns.

A gun store employee who says a lionheart is nothing but a bersa goes on the ever so growing list of the stupidest things I've heard gun store employees say lol. Nobody's perfect, but come on man that is just a ridiculous statement