Ruger Scout rifle problem

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The scout scope is an obsolete concept with todays excellent low power variables available. Tens of thousands of combat troops have proven that a conventionally mounted optic is very fast, as have tens of thousands of 3 gun competitors. Ditch the scout scope, it is now a stupid handicap compared to a good low power variable.
 
jmr40 said:
Mount a conventional scope over the receiver and call it good. The scout rifle concept is a good one. But Cooper was flat out WRONG advising a forward mounted scope, most of the rest of the concept is sound. A low powered scope mounted conventionally does everything better. As long as you keep the low end of magnification at 3X or less, preferably less, you can shoot with both eyes open and pick up targets just as fast.
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Everything except allow reloads with stripper clips, which is the reason the optic is forward mounted. That is a requirement under the concept, while an optic is optional.
 
I set my Scout in .223 up with traditional scope mounting from the start for use on hogs from a blind. The Truglo luminious 3x9 works very well for the 100 yards that the blinds are set from the feeders. Using solar lights from harbor freight there is sufficient light for the use of the luminious cross hairs set on the lowest setting.
Ruger sells a packet of screws to plug the holes after removal of the forward rail.
I sure would like Ruger to make 5 and ten round mags in polymere like it's big brother and get rid of the ten round metal monster.
 
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I agree. I would have preferred that Ruger sold the GSR with a 5 round and a 10 poly mag in place of the 10 round metal beast.

Since you bring up the filler screws available from Ruger, I did something a little different. I had a tube of black silicone glue and just filled the holes with that. Wipe it off flush and it matches the matte blue barrel very nicely.

The silicone keeps the water out and can be removed in virtually one piece using a metal pick of some sort. The silicone seems to be impervious to recoil as well.
 
I'm fine with the concept evolving into something where detachable box magazines obsolete the need to load from strippers. So the XS rail mounted with a conventional 1-4x would be just perfect. :)

I still like the idea of doing this with my little .338RCM (bottom).

IMG_6560b.jpg
 
CraigC - I have one of those RSI's in a stainless 7x57. Best looking rifle I've ever owned.
 
I have wondered about reducing glare from the sun being behind a scout scope by mounting a tubular lens hood on the rear, not the front, of the scope. It would require a bit of improvisation but should reduce the angles at which the sun behind you causes troublesome glare and reflections.

With the conventionally mounted scope, your head (and hat, if worn) act as a sun shield of sorts to keep sun glare out of the back of the scope. Adding a lens hood to the rear of the scout scope should accomplish much the same thing.

I have not tried this because I currently lack a scout rifle. A light sporter with a low power scope mounted aft seems quite serviceable.

Something I'm fooling around with is a red dot sight, mounted conventionally atop the receiver, but placed far enough forward that it cannot possibly hit me in the eye. This is a good setup, for when the dot sight is close to the eye it gives its largest field, but there is no critical eye relief, so you don't need to endanger your eyebrow. Come to that, I have managed to use conventional telescopic sights without hitting myself in the eyebrow with them, but I am told it happens sometimes--particularly when in a hurry.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
The idea, I think was to enable clip loading
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No, the scout rifle design by preference uses a box magazine. Clip loading was a less ideal alternative.

The purpose was that repeated testing proved that a forward telescope is the single fastest system for hitting your target. Conventionally mounted telescopes, while they have numerous advantages, can't compete in terms of speed.
 
Llama Bob said:
No, the scout rifle design by preference uses a box magazine. Clip loading was a less ideal alternative.

The purpose was that repeated testing proved that a forward telescope is the single fastest system for hitting your target. Conventionally mounted telescopes, while they have numerous advantages, can't compete in terms of speed.
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My own personal experience does not match up with that, but I only have myself to please. I wish it were the case though, because I love shooting and carrying a rifle in a scout configuration. Just not the best solution for hunting...
 
Newtosavage said:
My own personal experience does not match up with that, but I only have myself to please. I wish it were the case though, because I love shooting and carrying a rifle in a scout configuration. Just not the best solution for hunting...
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They tested it pretty extensively at the "shoot & scoot" at Gunsight. A forward mount is definitely faster than the traditional over-the-receiver mount. A modern red dot mounted forward would probably be faster still, but at the expense of offering only 1x magnification.
 
Newtosavage said:
I'm guessing they didn't have deer and hogs partially hidden in brush at that event.
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You're going to have to explain yourself a bit here, because I've shot plenty of hogs with a scout rifle, and they hid in brush or not as they liked, and it was never a problem. So go ahead, explain why a short, handy gun with a fast optic is bad for brush. This ought to be good...
 
Llama, I'm not going to get into an internet pissing contest with someone who is clearly looking for a fight. I'm glad it works for you. It didn't for me. That is all.
 
Choices are good. I have both conventionally scoped rifles and a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 with a forward mounted Leupold Scout scope. I find it very quick keeping both eyes open, and have not encountered the glare problem that was described at the top of the thread.

I also like the fact that my scope is mounted with quality QD rings, and can be quickly removed to allow use of the excellent peep sights.

YMMV.
 
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The glare problem with a scout comes from having a low angle sun shining from behind on the eye piece. Not on the objective end. To answer to Bob's comment. There is no finer set up for fast moving critters, there is no finer set up for snap shooting in the brush. The forward mounted low power scout set up falls right on its butt in lower light when you've got a critter back in the brush a bit at range and you need some clear optics that allow seeing detail to pick it out. I've been chumped with a scout set up on several occasions due to exactly what I've described above.

I own two Steyr Scouts. One with the original 2.5 power IER forward mounted and the other with a 1x6 conventionally receiver mounted. I can't even begin to know the exact number of hogs I've killed with the original scout. It's also taken a bunch of deer, several antelope and a pile of African plains game. And it is almost worthless under some circumstances. I've missed several shot oportunities with that rifle due to either a sun from behind issue or a lack of optics when needed. Which is why I've rigged a second Steyr the way I have. You don't lose much speed with the conventional low power variable and you gain the advantage of having detail with the better high power optic.

Both Steyrs shoot sub half MOA out of the box, they are eminently shootable, the spare mag in the butt stock is awesome and the intergal bipod makes them handy and provides death ray accuracy out to long range. I love the rifle.
 
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The scout rifle concept is a compromise from the start. It is an attempt to blend a service rifle and a hunting rifle. It is the ballistic equivalent of a spork: not as good at spooning as a spoon and not as good at forking as a fork.

I own a spoon and a fork. I own pliers as well as a knife. I understand the value of a Leatherman tool, but I would never choose it if my full toolbox is nearby. I own a combat rifle and I own a hunting rifle. I don't ever expect combat to break out while I'm on my deer stand. Actually, I don't expect rifle combat to break out anywhere near me. If you need to reload your hunting rifle with stripper clips or a new magazine you're doing it wrong--or the bag limit in your area allows you to slaughter on entire herd.

I owned one of the Savage scout rifles briefly and liked almost nothing about it. The forward mounted scope made shooting with the early morning sun at your back almost impossible. A cardboard tube around the rear helps, but selling it made the problem go away entirely.
 
I own a combat rifle and I own a hunting rifle. I don't ever expect combat to break out while I'm on my deer stand. Actually, I don't expect rifle combat to break out anywhere near me. If you need to reload your hunting rifle with stripper clips or a new magazine you're doing it wrong--or the bag limit in your area allows you to slaughter on entire herd.
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This made my morning. LOL I've often wondered the same things...
 
Newtosavage said:
Llama, I'm not going to get into an internet pissing contest with someone who is clearly looking for a fight. I'm glad it works for you. It didn't for me. That is all.
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It didn't "work"? What, it shot diagonally? Caught fire? Told bad jokes?

It's just a rifle. If you can't figure out how to shoot hogs with it, that's a personal problem not an equipment problem.
 
The sun-from-behind problem has been encountered by enough riflemen to constitute a well-identified issue with the scout scope. A design change is in order, a built-in lens hood on the rear of the scope.

What people like about the scout scope is pretty obvious. If you occlude your target with it, you will find by magic that the target is somewhere close to the crosshairs. This works due to the distance forward making the rearward aspect of the scope look smaller, and due also to the narrow field of view.

However, comma, he said: Before he cooked up the scout rifle, Col. Cooper explained a different method of getting on quickly with a scope, a method that works with scopes conventionally mounted. Point your rifle at the target, shotgun-fashion, and only then look into the scope. With any luck you will find your target is in the scope somewhere, particularly if the power is not too high.
 
Kendal Black said:
A design change is in order, a built-in lens hood on the rear of the scope.
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This is certainly an option, and it costs about $2 for some plastic tubing if you feel the need. In practice simply choosing optics with suitable coatings tends to eliminate the problem. There's a big difference between Bushnell and Leupold.

None of this has anything to do with the suitability of a scout rifle for hunting or military applications.
 
Elkins45 said:
It is the ballistic equivalent of a spork: not as good at spooning as a spoon and not as good at forking as a fork.
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Well put! But the idea of a rifle that will do, more or less, for anything you would want a high power rifle for has a certain appeal even if only philosophical: the Platonic idealized form of the rifle. Or something.

I have been following the idea and its discussion for years and years. It looks to me like the bolt action was selected because field-tough autoloaders in .308 were, at the time, judged to be too heavy--think here of the M14 and the FAL.
 
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