Gauging interest in a compact .300 BLK Bullpup 'Rifle'

The 300blk isn't going anywhere, as it would have to mark the death of the 223/5.56 for that to happen. I'm not a 300blk fan, but there's certainly no reason to design around the x39 based on mislead comments made above about staying power.

Bull pups seem like a great idea but the execution is always lacking. Good luck

This has to be satirical right? There's no way it isn't. The OP is talking about modifying Nerf guns, selling them to SWAT teams. And referencing videogames while doing it... All that and he has 7 posts all of which have been in this thread. What are your credentials? Show us some guns you have made before or worked on, do you have degree in engineering or are you a gunsmith? Are you aware shooting 30 rounds through a nerf gun would crack all the plastic and break the screws off at the mounting points? With .308 it would probably send the barreled action through your jawbone. Are you aware you would be promptly sued by Hasbro for re-selling your guns in their manufactured shells? How old are you? I'd wager around 14 if your friend is an avid Nerf collector... Think about what you're doing.

Make a 300BO barrel for the Styer AUG in 9" & 16" ... that would earn you some respect!

^ there will always be a few, just ignore it and carry on...anyway.....I for one am looking forward to how you progress with this. Ive always like the idea of a bullpup rifle but either couldnt afford, or didnt like the ones ive handled.
Personally i would like a little more oomph than the blackout, but my purposes would shooting targets and possibly hunting with it. Thus i like the idea of an x39 or Grendel....or something similar...hell a .458Socom would be neat.

Hamby Strategic Armament said:

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I really feel like you are either mocking me, or haven't read the original post.

I am NOT putting real steel internals in a NERF gun. That would be suicidal. I am DESIGNING, from the ground up, a new bullpup that externally RESEMBLES that NERF gun.

Also, I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering. I am also a gunsmith. I do not have any products on the market as of this post, although HSA will be launching it's first products in the next few months.
I have an IP lawyer, and we have been through the patent aspect of this. It does not pose an issue.

As far as being new here, I don't know what to tell you. I just got my degree at the end of last semester. I have been a lurker on most of the major forums for a long time, even though I rarely post. Everyone has to start somewhere I suppose, and I'm just starting here.

Why is everybody attacking me and the idea? Either state you like the idea or you don't. It doesn't have to get personal. You're interested or you're not. It's supposed to be that simple. Perhaps this is what TFB TV was talking about when they said "The gun market always demands more options, then is quick to pick apart those options when they arrive." Maybe this is why all the small companies anymore just make ARs. We're here to change that. We're here to innovate. But we want USER feedback. If we design a weapon system and it doesn't work for those who rely on it, how will anyone benefit?

Therefore, if you want a gun that will suit your needs, provide feedback. Tell us what you want, what you need, what you'd like. Constructive criticism and advice go a long way, saying "that idea sucks" does not.

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I have read the original post, and all the others. Many times in fact, you never said you will be building the gun from the ground up everything you said alludes to modifying the Nerf gun...

"A few modifications would have to be made to the body, but I think this is doable."
"See the battery compartment of the Rayven above? (The bulge on the side of the magwell.) I think I will make that a little chute for casings to fall down"

No where did you say you will be building this from the ground up, so don't be mad when people get confused. And if you are building this from the ground up you are still following Nerfs design religiously apparently. Which is strange because it is a toy designed for pre teens, and again will get you sued. If you have an engineering degree can you really not think of an original design? That nerf gun reeks of bulkiness and poor ergonomics. I am an actual gun designer in study working for it to be my occupation. You need to ask yourself what will your company bring to the market, there are plenty of amazing bullpups already out. Simply making one in .300 blackout will not put you on the map. Especially if the masses found out you copied a nerf gun for the design. If you can't think of any revolutionary designs then you need to have an incredibly reliable and easy to use system, very good ergonomics and customization, and have it be cheaper then all the rest. That Nerf gun will be none of those, take a pencil and paper and sketch out your own design its pretty simple. Or can you show us some of the renderings you did in CAD?

Sorry if my post offended you, if you are serious good luck, I think a bullpup .300 blackout would be cool. However I'm still 95% sure you're a troll. You're a gunsmith? Can you show some pictures of guns you have smithed? We all love custom guns. Maybe that'll give you some credence. What you are saying is crazy and you have 8 posts, that is why i commented that you are new, i have no problem with new people. But we can't see your credentials to tell if you are being genuine or another troll. So please let's see some proof. Just so we know you're an actual company with actual ideas then we can get to the constructive criticism and help you with your design. I would love to eat my words but i don't expect it.

I'm not going to add to the sidetrack about how the gun is going to be made and assume for the purposes of the post it will be fashioned with the appropriate materials and engineering. The OP didn't ask for criticism of how a Nerf gun would be altered. He asked a gun forum audience for whether they would support a bullpup in .300 BO.

There is a very real issue with that alone - it's a niche market of gun enthusiasts who are by definition not mainstream buyers. Getting feed back from them will not be an accurate assessment of how the larger public shooting market will respond. Look to the .300BO's history for that - in the beginning circa the '80's it was a wildcat round to force the 3Gun matches to accept the AR15 as a rifle in competition, and they unilaterally refused to accept it. The bias was against the gun entirely and the .30 cal rule was just one tool to enforce it. Once the AR15 was accepted, what happened to it? No traction at all in competition, the round remained an odd wildcat and was picked up by SSK for further development as a suppressed round. We rarely heard about it later as it was part of the niche market for Stamp owners - when a silencer was still consider exotic and mainstream buyers weren't interested.

it took 6.5 and 6.8 becoming part of the AR15 market for it to get resurrected and then AAC altered the drawing to champion it as their New! cartridge - which took off, leaving the .300 WHISPER in the dust. Even then many of us thought it added little and considering it was never really intended for 16" barreled supersonic use either originally or in SBR's it still grew in popularity.

Same for bullpups. It was an effort to make mainstream rifles more compact, using battle rifle cartridges. The design was tried and found wanting. What the OP is attempting now is an "unholy" combination, so to speak - a short range supersonic bullet with limited reach, in a weapon meant for compact carry that will likely diminish its range even more. Researching it's application by asking forum members what kind of popularity it may have becomes an exercise in slanted demographics. Of course some might be attracted, gun forums attract those who like odd guns. It is no indicator of how it might sell across gun counters in the larger market.

Watch forums are like that - ask those enthusiasts what they would like and you get examples which only appeal to a small niche market - one such description would include mechanical automatic winding, high lume markers, high end face design, and complications which rarely do more to improve telling the time, with an expensive bracelet capable of instant size change. What we see in the glass cases at the Mall is something else. Run of the mill quartz timepieces are the major sellers. They are there because, they sell, and therefore, they dominate the market.

If you want to see what sells, look at gun racks. AR's are intruding, bullpups are notably absent. One in a cartidge which isn't a known high performer doesn't help. There's nothing to attract the mainstream buyer. It's a gun forum fantasy.

Varminterror wrote:
Here's the problem - real firearms designers, the kind with engineering degrees and professional gunsmiths on staff - don't start with nerf guns as their design inspiration.

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I have two engineering degrees and worked on the McGuire Arms MA-10 (Imagine a Steyr AUG with an M-16 style carrying handle and ability to switch between right and left-hand use by simply field stripping the rifle, reversing one part and reassemlbing it). The rifle was a commercial failure, but I knew the designer and he was inspired at least in part by the rifles the storm troopers carried in Star Wars.

After it failed, I acquired non-exclusive rights to the design, so it may be something to continue tinkering with after I retire.

As far as Hamby's question about interest in a bullpup AR (regardless of caliber), yes, I think there is a niche market for it. A problem is that the bullpup stocks that are available for guns like the Mini-14/Mini-30 are a quick, easy and reversibile solution for part of that market. Development costs would be high. Recouping them through low volume sales would be difficult. It would be more likely end up having to be a "labor of love" rather than a viable business.

entropy said:

The back and down ejection will either introduce a complex mechanism to function it, or rely on gravity like the Kel-tec; just have them eject out either side ala AUG or Tavor, or drop out the bottom like a P-90, much simpler.

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Kel-Tec RDB and P90 eject in exactly the same way. Both fire upside-down just fine.

jmar said:

That Nerf gun will be none of those, take a pencil and paper and sketch out your own design its pretty simple.

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One can hold a Nerf gun and perform tests with it that are impossible with a paper design. This is why the first Enfield bullpups were completely made from wood.

jmar wrote:
Or can you show us some of the renderings you did in CAD?

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I don't know anything about Hamby Strategic Armament, but I did get a chuckle out of the CAD reference.

I completed my second engineering degree around the same time IBM released their first PC. I learned drafting on vellum. As a forensic engineer, I do analysis, not design, so I rarely deal with CAD systems and when I do have to draw something out, there is still a sheet of vellum taped to my drafting table.

Hamby is obviously currently still in the conceptual phase of this project and if their engineer is an fossil like me who still designs with a pencil, not a mouse, they may choose to wait to make the investment in computerized tooling until they have a working design.

Casefull wrote:
Bull pups seem like a great idea but the execution is always lacking.

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Could you be specific as to how you think the execution is lacking? I'm not trying to argue with you; I think your thoughts about the deficiencies of what has been done in the past could help Hamby avoid making the same mistakes.

Tirod wrote:
One in a cartidge which isn't a known high performer doesn't help.

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The FN P90 is 5.7x28 which is anything but a "high performer".

No interest. Best of luck in your endeavors.

Hamby Strategic Armament wrote:
True, but what does this have to do with .300 BLK?

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If you go back and read his post, Tirod was dismissing a bullpup in 300 BLK because the cartridge was not a "high performer". I was merely pointing out that the successful P90 was in a cartridge that was also not a "high performer".

I have many times posted that I think the 300 BLK is the AR world's answer to the 30 Carbine. More than a pistol cartridge, less than an intermediate rifle cartridge. But since close combat occurs within 100 meters, and the shorter length of the bullpup configuration makes it ideal for close combat, I don't see why the 300 BLK should be disregarded.

I seriously doubt an actual mechanical engineer and gunsmith would be copying Nerf guns, but that question aside:

Why not just copy the Tavor? The Israelis seem to like them, and a 300BLK in the mini Tavor would be compact enough to make a little sense over an AR.

No offense but you bought a nerf gun to inspire your firearm design? Because a toy you saw is cool looking?

If you want to legitimate your concept, you'll need to show how you are improving already existing firearm designs.

I'm interested in something like you are describing, but not if the only new thing it brings to the table is how much like a nerf gun it looks.

I wouldn't trust a firearm that was designed around a purely cosmetic criteria. It means to me that mechanics, functionality and engineering were secondary design features to its nerf appearance and proportions

That Tavor which everyone loves so much was based on "something that looks cool" as the first design constraint, fwiw. Look it up. So long as looks don't trump function, it's a good thing to be stylish.

As far as bullpups & cartridges & barrel lengths, I would select a range of popular cartridges, and match them with their accepted "ideal" barrel lengths, and go from there. Ultimately the point of a pup is space savings, so a barrel longer than needed defeats the purpose, and a barrel shorter than needed is less optimum than a less powerful round from the same length. Blackout subsonic is an SMG round, hence 10" at the most, supersonic is kind of pointless to design around. Subs beg for suppression as well, and the compact pup layout an integral system in particular.

The NERF gun proportions won't work; there is too little room behind the magwell for a proper bolt carrier, unless you are doing a very novel lateral moving block system.

It's nice that you've got a CAD drawing of the exterior, but what does the action look like?