Eightball
Member
If I bought one, something like that CAD drawing would be about it for me. I also would think .30 Carbine would work well here.
Would you buy a bullpup 9mm carbine?
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cluttonfred
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Don't hold back, LiquidTension, tell me how you really feel.
SSN Vet
Member
nope
LiquidTension
Member
I disagree. For a fun range toy, the 9mm is half as expensive to feed as the .223.
Evil Monkey
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I'm sure he (M1911) was talking about performance, not economics.
If it's not a suppressed, compact subgun, I just can't get excited about it even at low cost. If it's semi-auto and I have the limited range of pistol ammunition I start thinking, "well heck, I could do this just as well with a rimfire."
Don't get me wrong, I think pistol caliber carbines are fun. But if you're looking at the economic side of the equation and trying to save money, might as well make it rimfire (or at least rimfire convertible).
jm
Don't get me wrong, I think pistol caliber carbines are fun. But if you're looking at the economic side of the equation and trying to save money, might as well make it rimfire (or at least rimfire convertible).
jm
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Make it take 71 round suomo mags then YES. Otherwise, no.
bannockburn
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kingjoey
I'd be interested but instead of a Sten mag, how about a Sterling mag? They work great, are rugged and durable (even some of the Indian mil-surp ones have been fine in my Sterling), and they're still available in quantity.
I'd be interested but instead of a Sten mag, how about a Sterling mag? They work great, are rugged and durable (even some of the Indian mil-surp ones have been fine in my Sterling), and they're still available in quantity.
Too much involved in redesigning the magwells for different mags, to do a few for a Sterling mag would cost us thousands of dollars in retooling, CAD, and testing. We're currently going with the STEN, the Colt 9mm AR mag, and probably the Glock mags soonafter.
Bullpups are too cool for CA, and are assault weapons.
The idea is decent for those who want a pistol with a stock. There is a decent number of people that lament they are not allowed to add a stock to thier pistol. I see it on posts occasionaly.
At the same time the design does give up some of its appeal to myself not in a rifle caliber.
Bullpup designs are also dangerous if extra elements are not incorperated into the design. Elements like extra shielding on the left side (assuming most are right hand shooters and it ejects on the right anyways) between the face of the shooter in the case of an overcharged round or catastrophic failure.
That way the explosion is not directed into thier face or head and the design can channel it in a safer direction.
On a traditional design firearm if above the chamber area or barrel bursts the shooter may suffer some injuries but it is probably not life threatening.
In a bullpup though more design safeties are needed, which brings up the cost somewhat and is why they are usualy not implemented.
That makes most bullpups unsafe in my opinion. Poor ammunition should not mean you die or suffer life threatening injuries.
Geronimo45
Member
Sure would. I like bullpups.
PercyShelley
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There is a 9mm version of the Type 05 I've seen referred to as the Jian She.
Notwithstanding that kingjoey seems to have one of these in the works, here's what I think such a design needs to succeed:
-Plastic, injection molded receiver. The pistol caliber carbine market isn't huge, and the only way to beat down the competition will be to make cheaper guns.
-Dirt-simple construction. Buy a CX4 storm or a hi-point and repeat to yourself "this gun is more complicated than the gun we want to make."
-"zero-length" bolt. Look at the bolt on the CX4 and go one further. Your bolt needs to house the ejector, firing pin, extractor and be thick enough not to snap under the pressure of firing. I can see that justifying, oh, an inch of length from the bolt face to the rear end of it at most and twice that if it's striker fired. Telescope the rest of the bolt's bulk.
-Really, really long flash hider. To wring maximum velocity out of most 9mm loads a 16 inch barrel is probably too much. A 12 inch polygonal rifled barrel, for instance might be closer to the optimum, and more importantly, cheaper.
Sure, you could go with a 16 inch barrel and make sure that the stock/receiver of the gun extends ten inches past that, but isn't the entire point of a bullpup that it eliminates extraneous an inert material from the rear portion of the rifle? Plus, if you're going to market this to cops, you might not want to go filling up the length of pull with unnecessary material, since those folks tend to wear body armor.
Instead, shorten the distance behind the bolt face as much as possible. I reckon that to be about two inches plus the cartridge OAL, if you're doing it fast and I think shorter still is possible than that if you're painstaking about it. use the longest barrel that isn't losing velocity on most 9mm loads and make up the rest of the length with a permanently attached flash hider. That makes the NFA version that much easier as well; just don't attach the flash hider.
Notwithstanding that kingjoey seems to have one of these in the works, here's what I think such a design needs to succeed:
-Plastic, injection molded receiver. The pistol caliber carbine market isn't huge, and the only way to beat down the competition will be to make cheaper guns.
-Dirt-simple construction. Buy a CX4 storm or a hi-point and repeat to yourself "this gun is more complicated than the gun we want to make."
-"zero-length" bolt. Look at the bolt on the CX4 and go one further. Your bolt needs to house the ejector, firing pin, extractor and be thick enough not to snap under the pressure of firing. I can see that justifying, oh, an inch of length from the bolt face to the rear end of it at most and twice that if it's striker fired. Telescope the rest of the bolt's bulk.
-Really, really long flash hider. To wring maximum velocity out of most 9mm loads a 16 inch barrel is probably too much. A 12 inch polygonal rifled barrel, for instance might be closer to the optimum, and more importantly, cheaper.
Sure, you could go with a 16 inch barrel and make sure that the stock/receiver of the gun extends ten inches past that, but isn't the entire point of a bullpup that it eliminates extraneous an inert material from the rear portion of the rifle? Plus, if you're going to market this to cops, you might not want to go filling up the length of pull with unnecessary material, since those folks tend to wear body armor.
Instead, shorten the distance behind the bolt face as much as possible. I reckon that to be about two inches plus the cartridge OAL, if you're doing it fast and I think shorter still is possible than that if you're painstaking about it. use the longest barrel that isn't losing velocity on most 9mm loads and make up the rest of the length with a permanently attached flash hider. That makes the NFA version that much easier as well; just don't attach the flash hider.
Skofnung
Member
If you were to make one in .45 or 10mm, I would be game.
So what you are doing is bullpuping an Austen?
So what you are doing is bullpuping an Austen?
Daniel964
Member
I'm interested. I'd like it to be able to use off the shelf mags. Nothing that has to be modified. I'd like it light weight. Under five pounds would be great. Sling swivels. Peep sites and a scope rail option would be nice.
zxcvbob
Member
"Don't you BUY, no ugly truck!"
Laff from the past
That first picture makes a highpoint look beautiful. That thing is so ugly it would need to be free for me to take it and even then.
What would a 9mm pullpup offer, in terms of prformance, that someting (already existing) from the PDW class of weapons wouldn't? Also what major advatages does it have to go away from a proven SMG like a MP5 if you are going to stay with a 9mm. If you are going to go to a new unproven design you ought to have some compelling reasons IMO.
What would a 9mm pullpup offer, in terms of prformance, that someting (already existing) from the PDW class of weapons wouldn't? Also what major advatages does it have to go away from a proven SMG like a MP5 if you are going to stay with a 9mm. If you are going to go to a new unproven design you ought to have some compelling reasons IMO.
bannockburn
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Owlnmole
Now that I think about it, your one pic with the mag in the ventral position reminded me of another bullpup design I saw many years ago in an issue of SOF magazine. It was called the Sidewinder and was designed by Sid McQueen and Donald Packingham in the late '70's for a possible government contract. They had a couple of different versions, one in 9mm. using Sten mags, and another in .45 using Grease gun mags. One interesting feature with the EX-02 and EX-03 was that the part of the receiver and mag well could be swiveled 180 degrees so that it could be used by both right and left handed shooters.
Now that I think about it, your one pic with the mag in the ventral position reminded me of another bullpup design I saw many years ago in an issue of SOF magazine. It was called the Sidewinder and was designed by Sid McQueen and Donald Packingham in the late '70's for a possible government contract. They had a couple of different versions, one in 9mm. using Sten mags, and another in .45 using Grease gun mags. One interesting feature with the EX-02 and EX-03 was that the part of the receiver and mag well could be swiveled 180 degrees so that it could be used by both right and left handed shooters.
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