44 May Be Special. But it Ain't for Defense!

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USBP379

USBP379

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Several years ago after getting my two Bulldogs (2½"), I ran some of the 2 flavors of .44spc that I had on-hand thru the Chrony.

PMC HP 180gr = 768fps
Blazer(AL) GD 200gr = 778fps

:what:

For .44spc SD ammo I like loading Matt's 250gr HPs at or a bit below 800fps.

I figure that a hit with one will (at least) sit the BG down while I work on hitting him with a few more (if required). :)

EDIT: Add photo ...

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Big bullets moving slow(.44 Special, .45 ACP, etc.) or big bullets moving fast(.44 Mag, Casull, etc.) pretty much do the same thing. Put big holes into things. And the gun rag writers decide the outcome they want before they do any testing. If they actually test at all.
 
BobWright said:
From what I saw, the heaviest bullet used was a 200 gr. bullet. My own loads are built around a 240 gr. Nosler JHP that clocks around 915 f.p.s. Close up, suitable for deer sized game. And this is easily bumped up to 1200 f.p.s with no problem in a Ruger Blackhawk.

Bob Wright
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Performance can certainly be easily improved with hand loads. Also I think Underwood's Bulldog Load will easily beat any factory ammo reviewed for the article.
 
Something with a JHP around 1000 fps should be pretty comfortable to shoot and be quite lethal on humans. For me personally, I don't really want anything more powerful for defensive use than 38spl.
 
22-rimfire said:
Something with a JHP around 1000 fps should be pretty comfortable to shoot and be quite lethal on humans. For me personally, I don't really want anything more powerful for defensive use than 38spl.
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The Hornady Critical Defense runs about 1,000 from the Ruger. It and the Speer Gold Dot are probably the better of the brand name brand stuff. CD was a little shallow on the penetration though. Maybe that's not a big deal in civilian defensive shootings.
 
Sunray said:
And the gun rag writers decide the outcome they want before they do any testing. If they actually test at all.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that? Velocity and penetration numbers are all listed there as are the accuracy stats.
 
Back when I carried one or the other of my older production CA Bulldogs (3" blued & stainless), I was pretty limited in available commercial ammo (and restricted to factory ammo because of them being off-duty weapons).

The older W-W 200gr STHP's seemed most likely to expand (with their soft aluminum jackets), but I remember reading about how the company had to revise their bullet design at some point so the short bullet would stabilize in shorter barrels. Another cop I tried to sell my blued BD to didn't want it after he tried it with STHP's and got really erratic accuracy with them.

I eventually got rid of those early 3" BD's (for unsatisfactory QC issues, which is another subject), and decided the .44 Spl was best used in longer barreled revolvers. I have some of the early CCI 200gr Blazer JHP's, from when I was still carrying my 6 1/2" 629 and 5 1/2" Redhawk as off-duty weapons.

I was told by a W-W LE rep, back about '04, that the company had done a revision of the STHP line. He said that since the STHP wasn't considered to be a LE product line, and wasn't promoted for LE sales, they didn't use the same "ballistic testing standards" for the STHP development. He also said the STHP had previously been considered to be a line which offered reduced penetration (compared to what LE was starting to ask for in duty ammo). I didn't check back to see what revision had been done in the STHP line, but I later noticed the 110gr standard pressure .38 Spl was no longer using a soft aluminum jacket, but what seemed to be a harder jacketed, nickel plated JHP (like the 145gr MAG bullet, and the 210gr .44 MAG STHP).

If I were to ever again acquire a short barreled revolver, which I wanted to use as a retirement CCW option, I'd probably just look for some of the Speer 200gr GDHP and call it a day. It's been many years since I was a handloading enthusiast, and while I'll always have a nostalgic soft spot for .44 Spl/MAG, nowadays I'm more interested in carrying smaller revolvers.
 
fastbolt said:
Back when I carried one or the other of my older production CA Bulldogs (3" blued & stainless), I was pretty limited in available commercial ammo (and restricted to factory ammo because of them being off-duty weapons).

The older W-W 200gr STHP's seemed most likely to expand (with their soft aluminum jackets), but I remember reading about how the company had to revise their bullet design at some point so the short bullet would stabilize in shorter barrels. Another cop I tried to sell my blued BD to didn't want it after he tried it with STHP's and got really erratic accuracy with them.

I eventually got rid of those early 3" BD's (for unsatisfactory QC issues, which is another subject), and decided the .44 Spl was best used in longer barreled revolvers. I have some of the early CCI 200gr Blazer JHP's, from when I was still carrying my 6 1/2" 629 and 5 1/2" Redhawk as off-duty weapons.

I was told by a W-W LE rep, back about '04, that the company had done a revision of the STHP line. He said that since the STHP wasn't considered to be a LE product line, and wasn't promoted for LE sales, they didn't use the same "ballistic testing standards" for the STHP development. He also said the STHP had previously been considered to be a line which offered reduced penetration (compared to what LE was starting to ask for in duty ammo). I didn't check back to see what revision had been done in the STHP line, but I later noticed the 110gr standard pressure .38 Spl was no longer using a soft aluminum jacket, but what seemed to be a harder jacketed, nickel plated JHP (like the 145gr MAG bullet, and the 210gr .44 MAG STHP).

If I were to ever again acquire a short barreled revolver, which I wanted to use as a retirement CCW option, I'd probably just look for some of the Speer 200gr GDHP and call it a day. It's been many years since I was a handloading enthusiast, and while I'll always have a nostalgic soft spot for .44 Spl/MAG, nowadays I'm more interested in carrying smaller revolvers.
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Nice info. Thanks for sharing.

I think the problem with the Silver Tip, pretty much across all handgun calibers, is that it expanded too well and broke apart.

I could certainly be mistaken but I believe at least one of the FBI Agents had STHP in Miami in 1986.
 
That's a good looking pistol eastbank.

I shoot mostly magnums in 44cal, but wouldn't feel one bit under prepared with a 200-240gr LSWC anywhere around 800-900fps in a gun I can shoot well.
 
The companies are loading for the lowest common denominator.

Note that on new cartridges like the .327 FM that factory ammo is loaded to it's potential. That's because there are no 100 year old firearms chambered for that round.

Factory .44 Special is loaded so as not to blow up an old S&W Triple Lock or an old Colt SAA. The metal and heat treatment of those old guns is not near what you get today.

Not to mention it's NOT A .44 MAG.
 
Cannibul said:
The companies are loading for the lowest common denominator.

Note that on new cartridges like the .327 FM that factory ammo is loaded to it's potential. That's because there are no 100 year old firearms chambered for that round.

Factory .44 Special is loaded so as not to blow up an old S&W Triple Lock or an old Colt SAA. The metal and heat treatment of those old guns is not near what you get today.

Not to mention it's NOT A .44 MAG.
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Factory loads exist for 45-70 and other old timers that'd probably blow an old Trapdoor Springfield in pieces. Plus I doubt anyone would blow an old M24 apart as they probably have already shot it with Keith style hand loads for a couple decades. A 44 +P is just that. A slightly hotter 44 Special not a 44 Mag.
 
I can't understand this obsession on velocity. Why do so many shooters judges ammo by how fast the bullet leaves the barrel? IMO accuracy is most important. The fastest bullet in the world will do you no good without hits.

A LSWC bullet might not expand much @850fps but like JeffG said above, bullet in bullet out and I will add if you hit something important like the heart or an artery that person will not care how fast or slow the bullet is traveling.

Does anyone really think a 240gr bullet @800-900 fps will not stop the bad guy? In the real world in real shootings that is a devastating hit.
 
This is the 255 RN LHP from GT with a Keith-style dollop of 2400. I chrono'ed five of these and the average muzzle velocity is 1,082 fps. Low was 1063 and high was 1091. These are from a 3in barrel.

The bullet in bare gel expanded probably about as far as it'll go without breaking apart. Penetration was about 12in. Through clothing the bullet still had impressive expansion and 16in of penetration.

My previous experimentation with Unique yields 950fps velocity and about 14in in gel. That's probably the load to use since recoil isn't as stiff yet penetration is still darned good.

This bullet with one of the powder-type coatings to reduce leading might be a wonderful defensive bullet. I wonder if Underwood could be talked into making such a load....

Anyway, is the idea of a SAAMI approved +P pressure spec that hard to swallow? Is it not time someone actually steps on the 44 Special a bit or is it just not needed/wanted by the revolver shooters out there?

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ArchAngelCD said:
I can't understand this obsession on velocity. Why do so many shooters judges ammo by how fast the bullet leaves the barrel? IMO accuracy is most important. The fastest bullet in the world will do you no good without hits.

A LSWC bullet might not expand much @850fps but like JeffG said above, bullet in bullet out and I will add if you hit something important like the heart or an artery that person will not care how fast or slow the bullet is traveling.

Does anyone really think a 240gr bullet @800-900 fps will not stop the bad guy? In the real world in real shootings that is a devastating hit.
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If velocity were of no importance, one might do as well throwing a bullet at an attacker. Muzzle velocity and bullet weight are the best indications of power. A bullet must have enough energy to do the job assigned to it. A bullet must penetrate enough to reach vital organs and/or shatter bone. True, accuracy is important, but the accuracy required at up-close-and-in-your-face is easily obtained by practical gun/load combination. As the range increases, and the quarry maybe somewhat different, then accuracy must be given considerable attention. However, with bullets and components and guns available, power and accuracy is not an either/or choice. This is especially true of the .44 Special, where it seems to perform best at velocities around 1200 f.p.s. or more.

Bob Wright
 
Not a very impressive write-up but as was said, the .44Spl has always been at its best with handloads. That said, I have ZERO problem trusting my life to the 200gr Gold Dot. Or the Silvertip for that matter.
 
Velocity is required to deliver a bullet with enough energy to accomplish the task. For most SD task 1200 fps is on the high end of a 44 special and beyond the ability of some guns to handle the load. In my Ruger's and S&W 1200 fps would not be a problem but my Charter Arms would not take many before showing signs of wear. For SD a 240 gr SWC below 1000 fps will get the job done.
 
CraigC said:
Not a very impressive write-up but as was said, the .44Spl has always been at its best with handloads. That said, I have ZERO problem trusting my life to the 200gr Gold Dot. Or the Silvertip for that matter.
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Almost all the loads tested penetrated to the 12-18" mark. But the Gold Dot was the only load tested that penetrated within the FBI's requirements and also expanded to a good degree. I guess that shouldn't be too big a shock as the Gold Dot has really become one of the standards for hollowpoints almost irrespective of caliber.
 
BobWright said:
If velocity were of no importance, one might do as well throwing a bullet at an attacker. Muzzle velocity and bullet weight are the best indications of power. A bullet must have enough energy to do the job assigned to it. A bullet must penetrate enough to reach vital organs and/or shatter bone. True, accuracy is important, but the accuracy required at up-close-and-in-your-face is easily obtained by practical gun/load combination. As the range increases, and the quarry maybe somewhat different, then accuracy must be given considerable attention. However, with bullets and components and guns available, power and accuracy is not an either/or choice. This is especially true of the .44 Special, where it seems to perform best at velocities around 1200 f.p.s. or more.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...
Bob, I guess I should have specified extremely high or hyper velocity. I didn't think anyone would think I was talking about velocities low enough to bounce a bullet off a shirt. I was talking about velocities traditionally associated with a certain cartridge being good for that cartridge.

A .44 Special or 45 Colt at standard pressures pushing a 240gr and 250gr bullet respectively at 800-900 fps will do the job. There is no need to try and generate 1,200 fps in a cartridge that was not meant to do so.
 
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