Newbie seeking advice: .357 mag

I'll chime in on this. If you have plenty of time and not a lot of budget, you can start small and work up to something bigger as your needs change. I have been loading on Lee presses for 30 years with no problems. I have a couple Reloader presses and a Loadmaster and had the Lee O press but lost it in a fire. When I was loading 16-18k per year I loaded mostly on the Loadmaster. You can get one setup in 357 for around $350 or so and just add powder, primers, and bullets. You may have to tinker with it some to get it running smoothly, or you may not.

Mainly now I use the Reloader for 9mm, 38, 357, and 45, but I'm only loading maybe 8k/year. I do all the brass prep in stages, deprime/resize all one caliber then do the next one. Once that is done I hand prime all of them and store till time to load. Time I have, $ I do not. Everyone has to determine what is best for them as far as time allotment and budget and mechanical abilities.

I would recommend the Lee Classic Turret Kit and start as a single stage then advance as you feel comfortable with it. A tumbler would be nice but not necessary, digital caliper, powder trickler, and a log book to keep notes of every load, what worked and what didn't. You won't remember it later.

Obviously if you have a few k saved up you could go with Dillon or one of the other better more expensive brands and be well served, but the initial outlay and the price for caliber changes could buy lots of components.

WrongHanded said:

Varminterror, thanks for that. You've convinced me, and I appreciate your explanation.

So a turret press then? Is that the same as a progressive, or is it one form of a progressive press?

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I don't have the years reloading like many here. But the few people that I have helped get started when shown how on my single stage Rockchucker then shown how on my LNL have all went out and either bought an LNL or a Dillon 550 and one bought a Lee 1000. He is regretting that decision.
They all said the same thing though, for loading the amount that they want to a single stage was just not worth the time that it would take.
Varminterror is absolutely right as I was loading 100 to 300 rounds of 357 and 44 magnum a week on single stage and it got old really fast and bought my LNL.
If you think that you are going to get into big runs of whatever then a 650 with case feeder would be the way to go. I put a case feeder on my LNL and though it is working pretty good I would recommend a 650.
If you are not going to want a case feeder then the LNL is a great choice.
I can't speak about any Lee press as I've never had one other than a Lee Loader many years ago, I do have some Lee dies and they work well. A Lee press may be just what you are looking for but make sure to look at all whats out there.
Having a single stage press is something that you will want to have whether you use it to load or use it for sizing, decapping etc so maybe that's what you should start with. If time is not an issue for you then go for it.
A manual indexing press just never made any sense to me over an auto indexing one but many have them and like them.
I will say that for me I've had many more close calls of making a mistake when loading a 50 round block than I've ever had with my LNL.

WrongHanded said:

Lots of replies, and I appreciate the warm welcome! It appear things have become more complicated as more advice has been shared. But that's hardly surprising as I really don't know much of anything about reloading. Learning curves are good.

I have to say that while the simplicity of a single stage appeals to me, I have watched a couple videos and it does seems slightly tedious to have to set up each die in the press for every step of the process. Especially as I'm likely to load the same same .357 cartridge from week to week, for range practice. For that purpose, would a turret press be more convenient? Lock everything in just where I want it, and then double check it's still good at the beginning of each loading session? I'm not short of spare time to reload and often find myself wanting something mechanical to fiddle with, so I don't anticipate being lazy about it. And I'm not interested in anything to automated, but efficiency would be nice.

On the other hand, having to setup a single stage press for each step in the process might be a better learning experience. Thoughts?

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The advantage of the Lee Classic Turret press is that you can use it as a Single stage also when you are learning. Just take the turret rod out.

Just my experience but I am still a believer that new reloaders do better with a single stage. (others can disagree) The main problem with single stage is you "batch load" so you handle the same piece of brass 3 or 4 times. But to me that also has some advantages in learning,

I started single stage and can load lets say 100 rounds in one hour. With a turret I get around 150 rounds per hour. But I take my time and not in any hurry. That number can be increased a little, With the turret you handle the brass once, it goes around and comes out a finished round,

Advantage of single stage is that it is you deprime and resize all your brass at one time, you can then stop. Then you prime and flare the brass, you can stop and leave it. Now you charge all of them with powder and seat a bullet, So you become one with each piece of brass.

That said I think the RCBS Rock Chucker kit is a good deal. It is all good "stuff" The manual, the scale etc. The Lee classic turret press is a good press but the "kit" stuff like scale are junk, so buy the press alone.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/9...CBS-_-937051&gclid=CLidzZiT-NQCFUNZhgodteEHpg

http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm

WrongHanded said:

Varminterror, thanks for that. You've convinced me, and I appreciate your explanation.

So a turret press then? Is that the same as a progressive, or is it one form of a progressive press?

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No, turret presses are not the same as progressive presses.

Turret presses have one station, one case holder, fixed to the ram, like a single stage press, however, at the top, they have a rotating turret which holds different dies. Some turret presses are auto indexing, some are manual only. This lets the reloader insert a case, size, prime, charge, seat, and crimp all without taking the cartridge from the press. The case stays in place, and the turret head rotates around to expose it to the different dies. The process goes like is: insert one case, pull the lever a bunch of times, one complete cartridge drops out. Repeat for the next single case. Only one cartridge moving through the process at a time, but it can go through each step quickly without resetting the dies in the press.

In a progressive press, there are multiple stations in the rotating base plate which hold multiple cartridges, while the turret head at the top stays fixed. The cases move around the press, exposing to each respective die. So this process goes like this: once all of the stations have been loaded, you insert the next case into the lead station, pull the lever, a loaded cartridge falls out, insert another case into the lead station, pull the lever, another loaded cartridge falls out, and so forth. There are multiple cartridges active in the press concurrently.

A step beyond - both turret presses and progressive presses can be operated as a single stage press.

The downside to a turret press is they still aren't as fast as a progressive press. The downside to a progressive press is they cost a lot more to set up for full automation so you don't have to spend a lot of time feeding cases, throwing charges, and feeding bullets. Well equipped, you can simply pull one lever and each station does its job on its own - but a guy typically has to get around $1,200-$1,500 into the gear to make that happen. For a turret press, bullet and case feeding typically isn't automated, and the press itself is much cheaper, so the whole set up can be had for a couple hundred bucks. If a guy is cooking along, a single stage might kick out 50-75 rounds an hour. A turret press can usually push out 100-250 an hour, while a progressive can kick out 400-600 per hour. Since a turret set up only costs about $50-100 more than an equivalent single stage, it's well worth it for that speed. The progressive press is an extra step up in terms of speed per dollar spent, so a guy needs to really know they need the volume before they commit to a progressive. I have two progressives on my bench for about 18yrs now, but I more often use one of my two turret presses for my reloading, and I use two Forster Co-ax's side by side for precision ammo (replaced a Redding T7 turret).
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I agree that a single stage is a good training base, but after your first tedious batch, you're done with it, looking for something more productive. A single is good for precision rifle, no question.

I agree with the single stage approach to start
I started with a Hornady classic LnL single stage with auto primer
The die bushing system is great.....swap out dies in 1 second
I feel I get excellent control of the whole process

But I did get a Lee Classic Turret press for 9mm, 45 acp and 38 special
I really like the auto indexing
You get a safety primer and a powder drop set up on the press and you can reload pretty quick
It won't hurt to take the rod out and batch reload for awhile
But I'd bet you'll be auto-indexing in no time

Here's a video on the Lee website
http://leeprecision.com/4-hole-classic-turret-press.html

You'll find the link a little bit down on the right

Maybe Rule3 will come back and get you setup with advice on the whole rig
He's a Lee reloading master

I have a Lee 4 hole turret and use my single stage for all rifle and the turret for pistol. The turret is nice for pistol rounds but I am glad I learned on a single stage. I made a few thousand .38 specials on a single stage before the turret. It reinforces the reloading process. I have a rock chucker mounted next the turret FWIW. I still do all of my sizing on a single stage, even pistol brass.

I am glad to see that on this Forum, the members accept and use OTHER brands of presses. Other forums the Blue Kool aid drinkers are strong!

Seems no matter what the persons income or reloading needs are, it is always skip all types of presses and go directly to a Dillon 650
Yes, Dillon makes great products but not everyone needs one,

Then followed up with "Buy once cry once" or some such cliche.

For the OP:

See these threads

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ding-equipment-basics-read-this-first.238214/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

I have been loading something for most of my life.My pop stated me out on his knee handing him cases and such when I was only a tot and I just grew into it. Pop was never one to put quantity over quality and in those years when I was learning the single stage was about it as far as presses went.

When I was in my late teens and early twenty's I went through a rough stretch and loading and shooting was about my only out to sanity. I hit our old C&H single stage plenty hard during that time loading and shooting a couple hundred each 357, 41, and 44 mags a week, then on the weekend cleaning cases and starting over again. The girl I finally married after getting my head screwed on straight was right there with me, handing me cases and bullets as we went. She also purchased me a RCBS 4x4 progressive for a birthday present. To be honest there is no telling how many rounds we actually shot up during a year and a half or so of going at things like we did before the progressive. None the less we turned out a BUNCH of handgun ammo.

Since having the 4x4, yes production did increase verses time spent at the bench. I can now load a hundred rounds of most anything in short order with a little prep. I count out the brass, and bullets, load up a couple or three 100ct primer tubes and sit down for an hour or so and have enough ammo to make a good time on a weekend. I also still load my hunting ammo for my revolvers on the old single stage I started out on, as well as a RCBS turret, and Rock Chucker, just depending on what the caliber and how I have things set up.

Don't think I have plenty of finances to throw at this either. I had to squirrel away and save to get it all except for the 4x4, and have been picking things up here and there for going on 35yrs. I feel that numbers wise I load more on the progressive, but quality wise I load better ammo on the single stages. You simply have more control over what happens to each round. I know there are plenty that use the Dillon's and had it not been for the wife, (then girl friend), I would probably have at least one of them now. Thing is, I invested into the shell plates for the 4x4 and now have enough to cover anything I load for. To start over with Dillon simply isn't cost effective for me.

So either way, you can load plenty of ammo. The end results are what you feel you can afford, and what the added cost might be. With the singles, it is simply a set of dies and possibly a hand primer, and a top notch scale. I use my Uniflow to throw more charges than I usually weight out individually, but I check them often. Like mentioned, a case block with 50, can be gone through pretty quick, and if you have several prepped and ready, your not killing a lot of time.

Good luck and DO pick up those manuals. They will be the best investment you will make so get several. The Lyman Pistol and Revolver, or their latest 47th or 49th or so will handle plenty of loads. Also as mentioned Hodgdon, Alliant, and Western/Accurate powders all have online data that can be either downloaded or printed out. One trick with Alliant, if you want a load for a particular powder, go to the Products tab, and click on the appropriate powder type, say Handgun in this instance. Once there choose the powder your interested in, then look on the lower right side and it will have a link to all loads using that particular powder. This gives you specific data where clicking on the actual Loading section might not, you might only get something they have just come out with instead.

Take care.

I would get the Lee manual.

A reloader shooting Hornady bullets should get the Hornady Manual, or at least purchase the Loadbooks USA One Book, One Cartridge books, which include the Hornady data for their bullets. Too many of the Hornady bullets have unique profiles compared to "typical" bullets in their weight classes to be safe for a reloader to use generic load data.

The Lee Modern Reloading Manual and the ABC's of reloading books are good references, but a reloader buys them for a different purpose than they buy other manuals - these two are great generic reference books, but the data included is very generic. Similarly, the powder manufacturer books are often typically very generic. The bullet manufacturer books like Swift, Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Berger, Barnes, etc offer specific information about their respective bullets, and any peculiarities which might come with them. For example - a user on this forum last year was recommending the 75grn A-max to an AR-15 shooter, because he had used the 77grn Sierra Matchking in his rifles, ignorant to the fact the 75grn A-max is something like an 1/8" longer than the Matchking, and has to be loaded longer than AR-15 magazines allow - and the respective powder charge data is very different for the two bullets. This is similar to what can happen when a reloader tries to use generic data for a specific bullet - seating a 75 Amax to a COAL listed for a 77 SMK will put the ogive down into the case neck, creating feeding and pressure problems. I use the 75 Amax as an example - there are many other bullets, including other manufacturers which just don't fit the generic load data. Another example would be the Barnes TTSX bullets - they're incredibly long for their weight, and they tend to like a lot more bullet jump than conventional lead core bullets (a truth I have found for all mono-metal bullets), so generic COAL's and seating depths just don't apply - nor do generic powder charges.

Similarly, the XTP line of bullets for handguns tends to have significantly different powder charge data than other bullets. The long bearing surface of the XTP's is unique, so loading with generic data can be dangerous.

WrongHanded said:

As far as dies go, I'm pretty lost there too. Is there a go-to brand, or are they mostly equal in .357 and .44 calibers?.

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Most new loaders go with the Lee dies due to the lower price. One disadvantage is the nuts, which use an o-ring for locking. Since the rubber compresses nut doesn't function as a solid stop for swapping out the die. The nut can be replaced with one that locks without the rubber, but at an added cost. Hornady lock rings are great replacements and can be purchased at a later date.

The next step up is RCBS. The nut uses a set screw, which provides a solid lock, allowing the die to be inserted without having to readjust. The RCBS warranty is a good reason to buy. No questions asked, they replace any broken or lost parts. Pick an old, worn out item at a garage sale and you can bet the item repaired or replaced on their dime.

Hornady and Redding dies cost more than most new loaders are willing to pay. They are a step up in function.

For basic handgun dies I have used Lee, but now use RCBS.

Jesse Heywood said:

Most new loaders go with the Lee dies due to the lower price. One disadvantage is the nuts, which use an o-ring for locking. Since the rubber compresses nut doesn't function as a solid stop for swapping out the die. The nut can be replaced with one that locks without the rubber, but at an added cost. Hornady lock rings are great replacements and can be purchased at a later date.

The next step up is RCBS. The nut uses a set screw, which provides a solid lock, allowing the die to be inserted without having to readjust. The RCBS warranty is a good reason to buy. No questions asked, they replace any broken or lost parts. Pick an old, worn out item at a garage sale and you can bet the item repaired or replaced on their dime.

Hornady and Redding dies cost more than most new loaders are willing to pay. They are a step up in function.

For basic handgun dies I have used Lee, but now use RCBS.

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I think those Lee O-rings can be an issue only if the nut is wrench tight, i.e. the O-ring is significantly compressed. If both surfaces are degreased, finger tight is all I need. Then the die threads are more immediately stopping the upward force at the expander, seater, or seat/crimp where inconsistency could occur. The other factor is that Lee stuff is inexpensive enough to leave dies in a dedicated turret or breech lock insert. Then the locking factor is not so critical, because you are not always screwing dies in and out. The dies are "stuck" by the O-ring.

Varminterror said:

I'm more prone to argue this point - if a person is so mechanically inept such they need to practice setting reloading dies more than a time or two, they probably shouldn't be reloading at all, for the sake of safety.

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That's a good point!

Varminterror said:

I know I wasted time starting out with a single stage press,

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Although I've been doing it for over 40 years, I'm not a high-volume handloader, so a single-stage press works great for me. And because handloading is one of my favorite hobbies, I never consider time at my loading bench wasted. What else would I be doing? Sitting in front of the TV?
I guess it might be a little ironic that I often sit in front of the TV while using my hand-priming tool to seat new primers in a batch of resized cases.

I loaded on a single stage for about 3 years. In that time it wasn't unusual for me to need a 1,000 5.56 and 1,000 9mm each month. It is definitely doable, and depending on how you view things, can be quiet enjoyable. Yes using a single stage press you are handling each piece of brass 4 times on average, but if you do things in batches the actual time is pretty quick per session. I would work through a batch of 200-300 pieces each weekend, usually taking an hour or so of press time per stage. I might spend 2 or 3 hours a weekend. It was always an iterative process taking some brass to one stage, and finishing other brass into a complete round. For me seeing a pile of dirty range brass turn into clean sized brass was nice, I enjoyed it. To me it wasn't a hassle so much as accomplishing something. My wife also works from home and her studio is in the garage, it was a nice way to spend time with her as well.

I got a Dillon Square Deal B (an auto indexing progressive that only does handgun and uses proprietary dies) after those 3 years. Yes you can crank out pistol ammo on them. It was absolutely faster then a single stage, and made high quality ammo. I loaded a lot of rounds on it as well in a bit over a year, probably somewhere north of 10K .45 ACP and other assorted calibers. However any time I needed to try something out, I went back to my single stage. I traded that Square Deal B away, and eventually ended up with a Dillon 550B. It and other manual indexed progressive presses are to me the perfect press for someone who likes loading, and isn't doing it to produce ammo professionally. I've loaded a lot of ammo on my 550B, but if I need to try something out (a new load, or bullet seating die, whatever) I always go back to my single stage. With a single stage nothing happens without you making the conscious action to make it happen. A progressive is great once you've got it all sorted out on what things are supposed to happen, but they can waste a lot of brass and components if you're trying to figure it all out at once.

There's nothing wrong with a single stage (or a turret locked in place), even if you're talking volume loading. You just have to figure out why you are loading, and what you like about it.

I will finish with, stay away from the 650 for a long time, if forever. Unless you add a case feeder and bullet feeder your aren't going to be loading any faster then someone on a 550. The caliber conversions are significantly more expensive then a 550, and they take way longer to swap. If you need 1 caliber, and a lot of it (say a bulleyes league where everyone chips in for reloading .45 ACP each season), and you add the power components to largely automate the loading then it can be well worth it.

-Jenrick

So if I go with Lee dies, get a plate for each caliber to make switching easier?

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Depending on the press you get, yes. If you get a turret, then spare turret heads make swapping calibers quite easy. Same with a progressive. If you use a single stage, depending on the brand you can use quick change bushings. I use the later in all my presses and it works great.

What benefits are more expensive brands going to deliver? Accuracy, longevity, warranty?

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Usually they are more feature rich, marked and repeatable adjustments on a bullet seater for instance. Longevity is not something I've ever seen anyone have an issue with regarding dies. As far as warranty, pretty much all manufactures have excellent warranties and customer service. For your first set of .357 magnum dies, I'd recommend Lee Precision 4 die carbide set(SKU: 90964). The carbide ring in the sizing die means you don't have to mess with lubing the case at all, and the factory crimp die (even if you don't crimp) will ensure the cases diameter is within SAAMI specs. MSRP is $60, but I'm sure you can find it cheaper if you do some looking around.

-Jenrick

WrongHanded said:

So if I go with Lee dies, get a plate for each caliber to make switching easier?

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If you get the Lee turret, yes, get a turret head for each cartridge you're loading. It then takes a matter of seconds to change turret head, shell holder, primer, and primer feeder to change cartridges. I have turret heads (what you called "plates") currently set up for over 40 different rifle/load combinations and 21 different cartridges. I have 5 turrets set up in 223/5.56, some for different rifles, some for the same rifle with different bullets.

With bushing compatible presses like the Lee Breech Lock or Hornady LNL Bushing presses, get a bushing for every die, then it works just as fast as changing a turret head. However, it's still a slower single stage press, so the loading process takes longer.

Similarly, for any press ever made, simply get locking rings (instead of the O-ring lock rings which come with Lee dies) for the dies, and lock them in place. You can then screw the dies in and out without ever needing to reset the dies. It's still slower doing this in a single stage, because you cannot automate the die changes, and have to batch process the brass through each step, but changing dies only takes a matter of seconds.

WrongHanded said:

What benefits are more expensive brands going to deliver? Accuracy, longevity, warranty?

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The Redding T7 turret - which costs more than twice as much as the Lee Turret - you do get less slack in the turret head, which can reduce the variability in sizing and seating depths. If you set the dies to cam over the press arm, you won't have any issue, as long as you cam over every round. For the Forster Co-Ax, you'll have even less slop than the Redding T7, and changing between dies is remarkably quick.

The downside, the T7 is a manual indexing press, which can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending upon your process, and the Co-Ax is a single stage - albeit an incredibly fast changing single stage (dies pop in and pop out, no threading at all)... And of course, these two cost $300+, instead of $120...

First post - ever on this site, but I have to say, great information in this thread. I started out with a Lee Loader that I inherited from my dad and that got old real quick (especially after setting off a couple of primers!) I reload about 200 rounds of either 9MM or 357 a month and for me the single stage works great. But I could see where if you were shooting 200 a week where a turret or progressive would come in handy. I have to agree with several who have mentioned that single stage is the way to go to start with so you can get a good understanding of each step along the way. In your case, I would say that a turret or progressive would probably be the way to go, but use it as a single stage to start with until you get the hang of it. I also would not use any high density powders (like Titegroup) on a progressive or turret. Using a powder that fills or nearly fills the case - thus making a double charge nearly impossible - is the only way I would load with a progressive or turret. Personally, I like being able to check the powder charge visually before proceeding to seating the bullet - but that's just my opinion and it is worthy exactly nothing.

As far as manuals, I use the Lyman 49th edition, Hornady 8th edition and Alliand and Hogdgon web sites a lot. I have a Lee booklet that came with my press that I use as well. Good luck whichever direction you decide to go!

WrongHanded said:

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I AM getting a Lee Classic Turret.

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Then grab a turret head for each of your cartridges you'll be loading, and be merry. As I mentioned, I get turret heads and die sets even for the same cartridge, just so I don't have to reset any part of my dies to go from loading, for example, my 60grn partition 223rem hog hunting load, and my 50grn V-max 223rem coyote hunting load, and my 77grn SMK 223rem long range steel load. Just swap from one turret to the next, adjust the powder measure setting, and start pulling. When I want to load deer smoking rounds, 300grn XTP's for my SBH, I swap turrets, change the primer dispenser, priming ram, and shellholder, then stick my Uniflow on top (load rifle with a Hornady LNL measure), and I'm up and running in a matter of about 3min. It takes longer to fill the powder hopper and primer tray than it does to convert the press.

May I suggest that BEFORE you get any equipment or components, that you read the 2 book's reloading sections several times.