Have you ever backed out of selling someone a gun, "just because", of a feeling.
- Thread starter george burns
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what was the response?
Ignition Override
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george burns: Your type of concern and lack of any details has been expressed on several gun websites by numerous people. I Don't understand the legal paranoia here...............maybe we should all sign paper Consent Forms before joining the website, and mail them in. You should see what is said on AKfiles about the President of I.O. (in FL), using his name. Very stark contrast. Maybe this planet has gun websites which exist in different dimensions only imagined by Stephen Hawking.
And no, it's not happened at all. My only handgun deals on Armslist were selling three unglamorous 9x18 guns (chambered in the Makarov round), and I bought a very unchic WW2 Mauser Hsc.
Including those plus about seven Armslist rifle transactions, there were never any odd vibes.
You learn about vibes long before you get to my age, 62 years old, or you should never have 'travelled' for a living.
And no, it's not happened at all. My only handgun deals on Armslist were selling three unglamorous 9x18 guns (chambered in the Makarov round), and I bought a very unchic WW2 Mauser Hsc.
Including those plus about seven Armslist rifle transactions, there were never any odd vibes.
You learn about vibes long before you get to my age, 62 years old, or you should never have 'travelled' for a living.
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OP
OP
george burns
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In 48 years I had exactly 1 deal go south, considreing i have been licensed for that long, I feel that if I felt strange about something, it was warrented. The other one was that the guy tried to short me , figuring I would just say , Forget it. I didn't. The first 25 years I never sold anything. Well I am 69 and have only had 2 experiences where the deal was "called" by me, for what I felt was good reason.
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larryh1108
Member
Sure, that sounds great if you want to pay an extra $40-$80 to the FFL. They'll charge to take it in from you then charge to sell it to the buyer. I'm sure there are some FFLs who you know well who will "cut you a deal" but that is not the norm.
Also, there are a lot of buyers who just don't want to buy thru an FFL. They are perfectly legal to buy/own but just don't want their name on any forms. They only buy F2F for this reason.
entropy
Member
At the gun counter, yes, many times. The woman who comes in with a "shopping list" in a man's handwriting, The obnoxious drunk who "demands" a deer rifle on Friday night before opener, then tries to bribe you, The jilted woman who comes in with mascara streaked on her face, and others I can't recall at the moment.
Personally, not yet, but I reserve the right to.
Personally, not yet, but I reserve the right to.
That's not really "backing out" of selling someone anything, is it? And would it be properly described as "just because of a 'feeling' "?
Merchants dealing in firearms (and in other things) have certain obligations. Some of those stem from Federal law. Others, from other laws.
Some have to do with not selling firearms (or other things) to persons who are not entitled to purchase them. Others have to do with not refusing to serve or to sell to someone without having a lawful reason for refusal. Others have to do with record keeping.
Not all of those obligations are limited to licensed dealers.
A "feeling" might, and perhaps should, lead one to exercise greater than usual caution, but it might not suffice in the event of a subsequent dispute.
Hokkmike
Member
Since you would have needed to transfer the gun through an FFL requiring his background check (pistol, right?) that would mitigate my concern. Sometimes when I have bought or especially traded firearms I have tried to, successfully on some occasions, pick-up some ammo, so that doesn't seem too odd to me. The first "nasty" email and he is "persona non grata" as far as I am concerned. I think that the general rule of following your gut instinct is usually a good one. I believe you did the right thing in this case. I have to say that I try to sort things out, this is NOT a criticism directed at anyone, before I close the deal.
entropy
Member
Well, two of the three. Obviously, the drunk is a gimme, but it would be perfectly legal to sell to the other two, the first might be a gift, the second maybe she'd just seen Love Story or something...... but that feeling said otherwise in both cases.
OP
OP
george burns
Member
Mike in FL, you don't need an FFL for a private sale. That's why you need to rely more on your gut. Granted if they just have a FL ID, and say they are not a prohibited person, they can purchase, a firearm privately. But how do you know they are telling you the truth? I err on the side of caution and attitude of the buyer. Once someone cuses at me, that's basically it. If you've been around for a while, you know when you are talking to another sportsmen, or not. And from what I surmised may have never owned a gun prior to this. I am going to put this to bed, if no one minds, it's good to discuss things with like minded folks, I am sure we all want to keep this sport as safe as we can.
True in many jurisdictions.
Yep. So am I.
Personally, I will sell only to people whom I know.
Would that be a reasonable criterion? "Sporting use" really has little to do with the bearing of arms.
There is a first time for everyone.
Caution is more than admirable here, but once one has decided for any reason to not make a sale, it is advisable to not make any statements to anyone else that would imply anything derogatory about the person in question, unless someone knows the facts to be true.
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Dragon breath
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They never responded too my email.
danez71
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Oh... No law degree.
However, in almost every yr for the past 29 yrs, I have annual training as part of my profession. It's something that I've personally had to deal with in court about a dozen times.
'Voidable contract' is different from something like 'able to be cancelled / cancellable'.
Wisco
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You seem very proud of your age discrimination. I was 18 once AND in the Army and some jackwagon like you had the audacity to tell me to f-off when I showed up to buy a pistol because he wouldn't sell to a kid. To him, a kid with a military ID was still a kid who "didn't need a pistol".
I'm pretty sure that one needs to be 21 to legally 'purchase' a handgun in most jurisdictions. Seems like not so much age discrimination, as trying to abide by the law.
Sam
Wisco
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21 from a dealer. 18 from a private party. Or 18 if it's a gift from someone.
Maybe not discrimination, but ignorance. It's apparently a very common misconception.
Jim NE
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I'm not sure why it would be improper to discuss it in a public forum. Regardless, the OP's experiences are why I will only sell guns on consignment through an FFL dealer, trade them to an FFL dealer, or sell them to people I know really well.
20 years ago, before there was much in the way of online gun sales, I would take out an ad in the local classifieds, but that was unnerving at times. I don't think it was just me, because the newspaper eventually stopped taking classified ads for guns. Maybe there were problems. I used to joke that if I wanted to meet every weird person in Omaha, all I had to do was sell a motorcycle or gun.
The majority of people were fine, but there was enough of a minority of weird people to make selling guns to strangers an unpleasant experience. I would always ask to see the person's driver's license and write down the pertinent info. One guy didn't want to show me his license so I didn't sell him the gun. If a person was only a little odd, I didn't worry about it, but if he didn't talk in a logical or coherent way, forget about it. Sure glad I don't deal with that stuff anymore.
Yes, in the course of 50+ years of buying and selling, there have been many times that I refused to sell a firearm because "something" didn't seem right. In fact, one of the first questions I'd ask when applying to work in a gunshop was whether the ower would stand behind me if I refused to sell. Most said yes and I worked for many of those. A few said no and I walked away. During an interview I had with Cabela's one of the guys said that was the "dumbest question anybody ever asked." I ran away from that one. In the old days, 4473s used to have instructions on the back (in the days when it was a single sheet) to the effect that you were expected to "know your customer". If any aspect of a sale didn't seem right, you didn't have to sell it. Now days if you refused to sell something, I wouldn't doubt there would be all sorts of threats and maybe some lawsuits. In any event, I don't know how many times I refused to sell a firearm but it was in the hundreds. I do know that I got it wrong at least 23 times. That is, there were at least 23 occasions when I didn't sense something was wrong, I wasn't suspicious or sensative enough regarding the buyer and ended up selling a weapon (have to include 1 crossbow) that was used in a murder and/or suicide. Still have nightmares about some of them.
buck460XVR
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As for dickering about the price and asking to have some ammo thrown in, it happens most everytime I sell a gun......and most everytime I buy one too. I see nuttin' weird about that part. I also dicker about the price of a new car and ask for a full tank of gas from the dealer. If your gut feeeling told you no, then you did the right thing.........that's your right. As for posting about it on a public forum, one only has to read Facebook one time to see folks will post about just about anything.
I was selling AR on GB and received a good offer, the guy was local, but something in our emails exchange bothered me. Decided to not meet F2F, I contacted my dealer and offered $50 commission plus make some $ a transfer. Next time I talk to my dealer, he said that 2 ATF agents were at his door very next morning. He did not elaborate on why, but my guts feeling was right.
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OP
OP
george burns
Member
Back in the early 70's my uncle was head of Autolite, "for those who remeber" on the East Coast. He sent me to a Ford dealer to buy a Mustang, Some hopped up model like a Steve Mcqueen Bullett, or a Boss 302, and the salesman left me for 2 hours sitting and waiting. I had the beard and Hair thing, like George Harison. No one would wait on me figuring I was a DUD. I left and called my uncle for another dealer, when he heard what happened several people got their pink slip. I didn't get the ford, went with a chevy instead. But that part about not ever knowing who has money I learned early in life. My dad used to take me down to the Bowery, in lower NYC, Tribecca, Soho, now. and walk me into the shelters, and teach me that some of the people there were Judges Doctors, etc and Bums. their were no "homeless, they were called bums, and he taught me never to treat them without respect, because you never know who you are talking to, so I am careful not to pre judge, but also careful not to ignore a strong feelings. Learning to read people early in life was something that most kids didn't get from their parent. Do you know how many kids get or got killed because their father bought them a Viper or 427 corvette for a high school graduation gift, unless they are exceptionally gifted. You should never give a kid a something they can't handle tll they learn how to handle it first
It appears that the post annoyed you, but it also seems that many folks have done similar and more often. This being a public forum I don't see the harm in exercising caution when something triggers you to cancel a deal. Especially when I have been involved in guns for 50 years. If I felt something from the responses I recieved, that you never saw, then I don't see where anything was done that should cause you to question it.
badkarmamib
Member
This describes me as well. It makes me feel better that either 1) I know it went to a good home, or 2) it was the FFL's responsibility to determine legality. I have no problem if other people feel differently.
Generally speaking, the lawful acceptance of a lawful offer constitutes a contract. Contracts can be terminated, but the rights and obligations of the parties involved vary according to local laws, circumstances, and the terms of the contract.
It is not a good idea to enter into a "deal" and then decide to get out of it, unless you know what you are doing.
A person may refuse to sell to just about anyone for just about any reason, but there are exceptions. But once a lawful sale has been agreed upon, "cancelling the deal" just might not be as simple as it may sound.
If you actually have a "deal" and you decide that you want to "cancel" it, you should have made it your business to know in advance what that would entail in your jurisdiction , and what obligations you might have.
alsaqr
Member
i can't understand it either. Unless the state has ubc one can sell a gun to any adult who is not a known felon. All I want to see is an OK concealed carry permit.
22-rimfire
Member
Generally speaking "Yes" with regard to new acquisitions and sales.
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