Favorite Defensive .380 ACP Load?

ArchAngelCD said:

Excessive velocity is not necessary. You only need enough velocity to insure reliable bullet expansion. The more velocity the more recoil and accuracy is most important in a SD ammo next to reliability. The best ammo in the world will do you no good unless you hit what you shoot at.

For some reason many shooters judge how good an ammo is by how much velocity it generates. That just isn't true.

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The round that I carry is not designed to expand.
The weapon I carry isn't a mouse gun, so controlling recoil isn't difficult.
And I trust my ability to put my shots on target.
The thread is titled "favorite.380 defensive round" , that is what I responded to.

Lehigh's own loading of the 65gr Xtreme Defense has the bullet going 1,150 fps. and tests have shown it penetrates around 13" in bare gel.

Underwood calls their loading +P and they rate their bullet at 1,400 fps - their website lists the velocity as 1,300 but the ammo boxes say 1,400 fps, and the penetration of the Underwood Xtreme Defense is also right around 13" in bare gel - both tests done in the Clear Ballistic gel blocks. But in theory the Underwood loading should produce more penetration than Lehigh's loading.

RevolvingGarbage said:

Hornady Critical Defense... Gel tests show 12-15 inches penetration with great expansion

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I haven't seen those tests.

kokapelli referenced the ShootingTheBull test and in that test, the Hornady Critical Defense, .380 ACP 90 gr FTX penetrated around 8 inches. tnoutdoors9's one-shot test had the 90gr FTX penetrating to around 11.25 inches.

C0untZer0 said:

It doesn't make sense to use FMJ when there are good round like PrecisionOne's loading of the XTP, and there are hollow points that perform well when they do expand and when they don't - they act like FMJ. Why not get a round that's worst case scenario is acting like a FMJ, with upside potential to expand some and only penetrate 13 - 14 inches ?

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Just wondering if anyone has used Freedom Munitions XTP line with Hornady bullets? There standard and reloaded shoot great in all my 380's and 9mm. I see no reason they would not shoot the same as Hornady but with a lower cost. I saw where they were going to come out with a special SD line, but a call to them said they are still getting the equipment set up.

Jeb Stuart said:

Just wondering if anyone has used Freedom Munitions XTP line with Hornady bullets? There standard and reloaded shoot great in all my 380's and 9mm. I see no reason they would not shoot the same as Hornady but with a lower cost. I saw where they were going to come out with a special SD line, but a call to them said they are still getting the equipment set up.

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Look at posts 11 and 26 in this thread.

Jeb Stuart said:

Just wondering if anyone has used Freedom Munitions XTP line with Hornady bullets? There standard and reloaded shoot great in all my 380's and 9mm. I see no reason they would not shoot the same as Hornady but with a lower cost. I saw where they were going to come out with a special SD line, but a call to them said they are still getting the equipment set up.

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I have run a few boxes of them in my taurus tcp and it's replacement the beretta pico. It is quality ammo but it did have a few issues in my new pico. It was very early in the life of my beretta so it may run better now that it's broken in. The fiocchi xtp load runs well enough that I switched from fmj.

Federal 99g HST. Accurate uses the same style bullet as the 9mm, 40 caliber,etc. I use the 124g HST in my 9mm.

Edcnh said:

Federal 99g HST. Accurate uses the same style bullet as the 9mm, 40 caliber,etc. I use the 124g HST in my 9mm.

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I have not seen any ballistic gelatin test of the HST in 380. How does it penetrate and how much expansion?

They don't do so great. This is a pretty good video where ShootingTheBull410 tests the 99gr HST and has some comments again about the Precision One XTP

Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Federal HST or Winchester PDX whatever you find on sale. Which one you get doesn't matter unless it proves unreliable (the ammo is very reliable but may not cycle 100 in all firearms) in your gun.

PabloJ said:

Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Federal HST or Winchester PDX whatever you find on sale. Which one you get doesn't matter unless it proves unreliable (the ammo is very reliable but may not cycle 100 in all firearms) in your gun.

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What do you base this on since all of them fail to perform up to the FBI penetration depth requirements?

kokapelli said:

What do you base this on since all of them fail to perform up to the FBI penetration depth requirements?

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Based on good results obtained with cartridge with case only 2mm longer. Look, it's not my fault he picked PPK instead of something superior like Shield, G43, XDs,......
I assume that he is carrying for personal defense where shots will be to torso at very close range making FBI penetration requirement a non-issue.

PabloJ said:

Based on good results obtained with cartridge with case only 2mm longer. Look, it's not my fault he picked PPK instead of something superior like Shield, G43, XDs,......
I assume that he is carrying for personal defense where shots will be to torso at very close range making FBI penetration requirement a non-issue.

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This thread is about the best load for a 380 pistol not about what the best caliber is and I completely disagree about "FBI penetration being a non - issue".

380 is a good case in point for how bullet designs aren't always transferable across calibers. Gold dots or HST may be perfect for 9mm, but you want something that expands more slowly (and not as much) in the 380, like Hornady custom or hydrashoks, to get the penetration.

Brand or bullet loyalty need not cross calibers.

In the late 80s and early 90s the FBI was driving bullet design and development for the 9mm and 40 S&W, and we saw tremendous improvements in bullet designs and terminal performance. IMO though, the ammo manufacturers didn't put nearly as much research or development effort in the 380 ACP. They did however, slap their name brands on the 380 cartridges, which gave the impression that 380 rounds like HST, PDX and Golden Saber were going to perform as well as their big caliber cousins. What we saw though is that many of these name-brand cartridges don't do any better than any of the other 380 loadings out there, and don't do that well in general.

Now we've seen a boom in the 380 ACP pocket pistol market with many owners who are intelligent shooters with good knowledge of terminal ballistics now looking for 380 cartridges that perform well out of the 3" barrels.

I think that is creating a market for someone to create bullet designs and loadings that penetrate 4 layers of denim and penetrate to around 13" of gel with some (controlled) expansion, out of 3" barrels.

If Hornady can design a .380 round that penetrates between 13 and 14 inches - it can be done. I would think Federal and Winchester would be embarrassed that their Ranger "T" and HST perform so poorly compared to the Hornady XTP. I would think they would go back and apply their expertise to those rounds to create an improved 380 ACP cartridge.

It seems like the bullets can't expand very much over .400 without coming up short on penetration. At around 790~ish fps, that's what the XTP does. It expands slightly - in a range of .388 to .402 and it penetrate 13 to 14 inches.

BTW, I think its hilarious that Remington's HTP in .380 have fantastically consistent superior penetration - without over-penetration, and they consistently fail to expand

I love these Remington 88gr "High Terminal Performance cartridges, they're surprisingly some of the most consistent as far as penetration, with the shortest penetrating round penetrating 15.9" - that's damn good, and the spread between the shortest and deepest penetrating round is only 1.8" that's very consistent.

They do not expand at all, so I guess the hollow point just serves to create drag

http://www.luckygunner.com/remington-380-acp-ammo-50-rounds-of-88-grain-jhp-ammunition#geltest

I think to myself sometimes "Is it better to have a .355" round that penetrates to 16 inches or a round that expands to .400" that penetrates to 13 inches?"

Just watched the Ammo Quest video on Federal HST 380 bullets. A real eye opener. I chose the HST based on reviews for the 9mm HST. Will have to re-think this one.

After checking out the XTP review I will try some out. Good info on the Ammo Quest video.

Out here where it gets up to 120+ in temperature, you bet your sweet bippy I carry a little .380ACP to the tune of a Taurus TCP of which I'm very proficient even if I do say so myself. It sits in a pocket holster, in my cargo shorts, and can be drawn very quickly if the need ever arises. The ammo I carry is Hornady Critical Defense, simply because it feeds well in my gun, and I definitely believe it will penetrate sufficiently to stop any aggressor. I do like the little red tip that assists in penetrating clothing, rather than getting caught up and working much like a hardball round, thus you do have the bit of expansion in use of the Critical Defense load. Incidentally my 9mm, 40 S&W, .44SPL, and .45ACP also accompany my CCW arms. BTW my wife has a Bersa Thunder in .380 and she also carries that same round.

Every one seems to focus on the ballistics gel testing, and seems to disregard accuracy in their particular firearm. I was at the range today with 4 different ammunitions recommended for one of my newer 380's. One in particular shot with much less recoil and much better accuracy. I will go with that ammo, which was not rated the best. but sure scored some serious direct hits with great groups.

The same for my single stack Nine CCW. Get to know your gun.

I like the critical defense loads too.
I am still looking for a favorite.
It was accurate and reliable until this^^^^
.....just thought y'all should know....

Armored farmer said:

I like the critical defense loads too.
I am still looking for a favorite. View attachment 759974
It was accurate and reliable until this^^^^
.....just thought y'all should know....

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I can't tell what “This” is?

It's an unfired round with a struck primer that didn't go off.

Armored farmer said:

View attachment 759974
It was accurate and reliable until this^^^^
.....just thought y'all should know....

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Wow. That is an ugly, ugly sight.