Trump to Sessions: Ban Bumpstocks

Well, The BATF has been (for the most part) fairly scientific and that's why Bump stocks have not been banned. You can accomplish the same rate of fire as a bump stock using your belt loop and a stiff trigger finger. A similar argument for trigger cranks. I would suggest that Jerry Miculek et. al. can actually fire faster without these devices than with them.


So what exactly would you be banning ? The trade-marked 'Bump Stock' or 'Trigger Crank' ? Perhaps you might ban anything that allowed you to increase the 'rate of fire' from an 'as-manufactured' firearm. Would that include trigger modifications, low recoil ammo, red dot sights? ... where would it end? And, of course, if that was the ruling then manufacturers would just offer firearms with whatever technology built in.

As far as bump stocks I might be interested in getting one only because they might be banned (I actually forgot all about them until this thread). I don't have any use for them and also I don't have any personal use for full auto firearms. As an individual, I don't foresee the need to generate suppressive fire for my non-existent partner. I'm more of the one-shot-one-kill mentality.

just read this too , hope it does not lead to more
another link
ttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-gun-modifications-like-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-massacre/ar-BBJnGfk

The question is if they ban this, what do they ban next time?

It reads I copied and pasted this:
" President Donald Trump says he's signed a memo directing the Justice Department to propose regulations to "ban all devices" like bump stocks used in last year's Las Vegas massacre."
so what will "BAN ALL DEVICES" mean ? That sounds like a big unknown open door ?

Unfortunately gun control never turns out well!

Wonder where they will draw the line at rate of fire, if they go about making legistlation?

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The President talked about rate of fire in general terms. Assuming that the ATF's technical branch is consulted before the legislation is drafted (and in the current environment that can no longer be taken fro granted) they will look at what aspects of the construction of the bump stock make it different from a regular stock and what causes it to facilitate rapid fire and then draft a law banning anything constructed in that manner.

If they let the same people draft the legislation that drafted many other bills lately then they may, in fact, end up banning anyone with a belt loop and a finger, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you turn loose people who think that anyone can write law.

Well, I don't doubt there will be increased pressure to do things like this following Parkland. I voted for Trump and I'm definitely pro-MAGA but I also knew (and know) that he's a businessman and his opinions are subject to change. Also that he's emotional and mercurial. OK, well, so what, I'm all those things myself.

IMHO this seems to me to be an emotional reaction to Parkland and Trump is trying to do what he can within NRA guidelines (they were for both banning bump stocks and strengthening NICS). They later backed off and said BATF should 'study' a bump stock ban. That's really where I think this is going. NRA recommended actions is as far as Trump will take it so no worries.

Personally, I'm kicking myself that I just ordered a new 6.5 Grendel setup and I could have bought like 25 bump stocks

Just tried to order one ... 'Extended backorder, ETA unavailable" and https://www.bumpfiresystems.com/ is still down since the Las Vegas shooting. Doubt anyone will be getting any anytime soon anyways ...

Aim1 said:

The question is if they ban this, what do they ban next time?

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They will eventually ban all semi automatic firearms. They will chip away until they ban everything. That is their goal. Anyone that thinks this can't happen is a fool.

FLIGHT762 said:

They will eventually ban all semi automatic firearms. They will chip away until they ban everything. That is their goal. Anyone that thinks this can't happen is a fool.

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They may try, and they may succeed, ... but it will not be in MY lifetime.

<*(((>< said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/20/tru...ices-that-turn-weapons-into-machine-guns.html

President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that "bump stocks," or devices used to make semi-automatic weapons capable of firing hundreds of rounds per minute, be banned.​

Trump said he has signed a memorandum recommending that Attorney General Jeff Sessions declare that bump stocks are illegal.​

Wonder where they will draw the line at rate of fire, if they go about making legistlation?

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As much as I don't like another gun related device getting painted as the Boogeyman (i.e. Black Talon ammo, Hi capacity magazines) I'm not interested in bump stocks because they're useless to me, but with 3D printers today and the internet, it wouldn't take much for someone to make their own bumpstock. Same with making it so only people 21 or over can own semi auto rifles; 18-20 year olds can go and buy 80% lowers and the parts and make their own AR or Glock.

The play here is don't tell Dems that and make them believe that 18-20 year olds will be stuck with single shots and lever actions. In return, get national reciprocity or suppressors off the NFA. The only way to get something pro gun through Congress is through a give and take and it sucked in '86 that the machine gun registry was closed for what ended up being a bill that some states don't adhere to.

IMO, FOPA was a waste. National Reciprocity is the final chapter of Firearm Owners Protection because it will make state regulations of hi capacity magazines or hollow point ammunition no longer meaningful. I'd gladly trade bump stocks and semi-auto bans for 18-20 year olds for that.

Anyway, the big news here is that Trump said "bump stocks" not "rate increasing devices." So, that means there's less likely of a possibility that a ruling is going to be made that's going to potentially be vague and make shooting a semi-auto too fast technically/legally a machine gun. Trump's playing the chess game and if we get the message to him that we're willing to trade bump stocks and semi auto bans for people under 21 for Reciprocity and Suppressors, we'll have made YUGE gains in advancing 2A.

The President may direct AG Sessions to issue regulations banning bump stocks, but as a technical issue, it's going to get tossed down to the ATF. The ATF is already wrestling with this, and doesn't appear to be making much headway. Trump is famous for being impatient.

I predict that this will be folded into possible pending legislation to raise the age for purchasing long guns to 21, etc., and the whole package will be fast tracked.

If Trump and the Republicans are on board with these changes, they are all but inevitable. Now, this is where the saying "if life gives you lemons, use them to make lemonade" comes into play. If we play our cards right, we might get something that we want out of this mess.

An obvious problem will be what to do with the existing bump stocks, if they are banned. The rationale for banning them is that they make guns behave like machine guns. OK, open the registry and let them be registered as machine guns. And while we're at it, open the registry to real machine guns as well. (Since this would be legislation, it would automatically override the Hughes Amendment.)

We need start thinking imaginatively.

Impeach 45!!!!

Or simply be patient, and let’s see where this is going first. I doubt it will go far. If trump wants to be re-elected, he best remember who put him there. The voices on tv are loud but minuscule. The silent voices at the ballot box are the ones to be concerned about.

SharpDog said:

IMHO this seems to me to be an emotional reaction to Parkland and Trump is trying to do what he can within NRA guidelines (they were for both banning bump stocks and strengthening NICS). They later backed off and said BATF should 'study' a bump stock ban. That's really where I think this is going. NRA recommended actions is as far as Trump will take it so no worries.

Personally, I'm kicking myself that I just ordered a new 6.5 Grendel setup and I could have bought like 25 bump stocks

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I agree, but 3 mass death events due to shooters in 4 months has raised the emotional ire of the nation. It's a lot like in 1934 or 1994 when the NFA or AWB were passed. The people are demanding "do something" and after Vegas and Sutherland Springs, Trump said we need time to distance ourselves from the emotions before doing something drastic that may not have been the right thing. Now though, even when a bump stock wasn't used, Trump had to throw something out there. He wasn't going to sacrifice hi capacity mags or the AR, but the Bump stock and maybe age restrictions on certain guns.

We'll see what happens with bump stocks in the ATF. Legally, they can't ban them under any current law. Hopefully they don't and it's used as leverage in any gun bills that come up this year to get other things we do want, suppressors and reciprocity.

If nothing changes, the Dems will change the status quo when they take over someday in the future and it won't be good.

We are not getting suppressors out of this. Devils advocate here. “What if the Vegas shooter had a suppressor and you couldn’t hear where they shots were coming from?”
I hope we get reciprocity, armed guards in schools or cpl in present gun free zones. I hope NOT that we get an assault weapons ban and trumps out one term. Who would replace him? A Democrat? I do believe he’s doing the Nra thing and I’m cautiously optimistic watching as of now.

AlexanderA said:

The President may direct AG Sessions to issue regulations banning bump stocks, but as a technical issue, it's going to get tossed down to the ATF. The ATF is already wrestling with this, and doesn't appear to be making much headway. Trump is famous for being impatient.

I predict that this will be folded into possible pending legislation to raise the age for purchasing long guns to 21, etc., and the whole package will be fast tracked.

If Trump and the Republicans are on board with these changes, they are all but inevitable. Now, this is where the saying "if life gives you lemons, use them to make lemonade" comes into play. If we play our cards right, we might get something that we want out of this mess.

An obvious problem will be what to do with the existing bump stocks, if they are banned. The rationale for banning them is that they make guns behave like machine guns. OK, open the registry and let them be registered as machine guns. And while we're at it, open the registry to real machine guns as well. (Since this would be legislation, it would automatically override the Hughes Amendment.)

We need start thinking imaginatively.

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Exactly, we can't just put our sword in the ground and fall on it over bump stocks. We tried to get passed last year that were nothing but pro-gun in nature and they've gone nowhere because nothing that's just pro gun rights will ever be passed Federally. It has to be a give and take compromise and we should trade bump stocks and age restrictions for certain guns for stuff we want like abolishing the Hughes amendment, suppressors, reciprocity, short barrel rifles/shotguns, etc.

pezo said:

We are not getting suppressors out of this. Devils advocate here. “What if the Vegas shooter had a suppressor and you couldn’t hear where they shots were coming from?”
I hope we get reciprocity, armed guards in schools or cpl in present gun free zones. I hope NOT that we get an assault weapons ban and trumps out one term. Who would replace him? A Democrat? I do believe he’s doing the Nra thing and I’m cautiously optimistic watching as of now.

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Even with a suppressor, 50 people would still have been killed. If the argument is suppressors could have killed more people due to lack of being able to detect shooters location, than the argument of the validity of the AR-15 and it's ability to shoot a lot of bullets also must be brought up because had Vegas shooter only had lever actions or bolt guns, less people probably would have died.

Suppressors are legal in countries where handguns and semi auto rifles are not and also legal in countries where semi auto rifles are legal. In Canada, short barrel shotguns are legal while a pistol .32 caliber and under are not. There's enough of an argument for hunting, pest control, and shooting sports that suppressors should not be regulated.

<*(((>< said:

Like @pezo the best I see us doing on getting something out of the deal is something that directly relates to rights of law abiding citizens as it pertains to helping battle these incidences (i.e. reciprocity, carry in schools, etc). One can hope for open machine gun registry and the hearing protection act, but call me cynical, I think that is too optimistic. But I'm all for putting pressure for such rights to be traded for, but it's going to take a bold move by someone to get those looked at by Congress.

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We've got a fix NICS/Reciprocity bill already sitting in the Senate. There's no reason an amendment to add bump stocks, age restrictions, removing the sporting use clause, and SHARE act can't be added to that bill for an omnibus gun bill. In the past 100 years we've had a total of four gun bills that became law on a Federal level and they were all decades apart from each other. The precedent is there that gun bills are very rare and they tend to cover a lot of ground.