Why the disbelief?

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Texas10mm said:
I'm loading 9mm for well under $0.05 a round right now. I cast my own bullets, I'm using S&B primers and Vectan A1 powder.

Primer $0.0175
Powder $0.006
Bullet $0.004

Total $0.0275 per round or $2.75/100

Yet people always question the cost.

Just because they can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

9mm brass is free. I normally pick up somewhere between 500-1000 every trip to the range. You can get Fiocchi primers for $0.026 each if you buy a case. The Vectan powder is $14.99 for 1.1 lbs. I'm paying $0.25 a lb for wheel weights.

I can understand if if your idea is to go to Cabela's and buy a lb of powder and a brick of primers and some Berry's plated bullets. You will have a hard time believing that someone can do it so cheaply.

Also I've noted that many people have no real idea of what their reloads cost them vs the cost of factory ammo. We always hear it's not worth reloading 9mm because it's so inexpensive. I say that's BS because it's really easy to cut the cost in half by reloading.

So, I guess what we need to do is break down the cost of our reloads so we can show people the savings.

My .45 ACP loads are broken down like this.

Primer $0.0175
Powder $0.0125 Winchester WST 4.4 gr, I bought 14 lbs for $19.99 a lb when Gander Mountain went out of business.
Bullet $0.007 200 gr SWC that I cast.

Total cost $0.037 each or $3.70/100

If I go with replacement costs then it breaks down like this.

Primer $0.026
Powder $0.0133
Bullet $0.007

Total cost $0.0463 or $4.63/100

If I had to buy casting metal from Rotometals the bullets would cost $0.0623 making the cost of 100 rounds $10.16. That would be a worst case scenario for me.
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How is this math working and what am I missing? If the Fiocchi primers in bulk are .026, how do you come up .0175? For your Vectan 9mm reload:

Vectan from Grafs is on special for $15/1.1#; buy a case of 10, add $7.95 fee plus $10 hazmat = $168/11.1# x 7000 grains = $168/77700= .0021 per grain. If you use ~ 5 grains per load = .0108/round + .026 for the primer = .0368 before bullet cost. Are you saying your bullet costs are ~ .01? Did that factor in the cost of the equipment as well? (I do not believe in factoring time as some of us are retired and have that available)
 
Texas10mm said:
I'm loading 9mm for well under $0.05 a round right now. I cast my own bullets
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You don't have to cast your own bullets to save on reloading costs over buying factory.


Here's the cost breakdown using FMJ bullets (excluding brass/labor cost and these are current inventory pricing):

- RMR 115 gr FMJ $71.25/1000 + free shipping (4000 quantity with 5% THR discount) - https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr...rmr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

- Promo $113/8 lbs + shipping and hazMat (I usually use 4.1-4.2 to 4.4-4.5 gr charge) - https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/alliant-promo-8/

- S&B SP primer $20/1000 (Bought when Cabela's was selling with free shipping and $20 HazMat). Currently $28/1000 for CCI SP - https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/cci-500-small-pistol-primers-1000/


Since I bought in bulk, cost of shipping and HazMat gets lowered and using reloading calculator, I get the following - http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Bullets $71.25/1000, Powder $123/8 lbs and Primer $21/1000 = $5.11/50 rounds for 4.5 gr charge, $5.07/50 rounds for 4.2 gr charge

Even using $30/1000 for primers, cost increases to $5.56/50 rounds.


Just over $5/50 for 9mm is about half the cost of buying factory (greater savings for larger calibers) and these loads produce around 1" groups at 25 yards from my 17" Just Right carbine plenty accurate for plinking fun - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/

index.php
 
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If you're saving $0.15 a round reloading you can pay for a Dillon 650 setup in 8000 rounds. That's less than a year's worth of shooting for me. I shoot a lot of .45 ACP. That's a savings of around $0.18 per round, 6666 rounds to pay off a $1200 Dillon setup. I shoot around 1000 rounds a month of .45 ACP. Call it seven months to pay off that Dillon. Once you have the setup paid off it's free money. Want to start loading another pistol caliber? That's no more than $200 for dies, conversion and maybe a plate for the case feeder. If you're saving $0.15 a round that's paid for in 1300 rounds.
 
Texas10mm said:
... you can pay for a Dillon 650 setup in 8000 rounds.
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Over 27 years of reloading, I have spent over $110,000 on various shooting and reloading costs. I told my wife I saved us over $150,000 in reloading cost over buying factory ammunition. For some reason, she is still not convinced. :D

My various C-H, Dillon, Herter, Lee and RCBS presses have been paid off long time ago. Believe me, cost of reloading equipment is small compared to cost of reloading components!
 
George P said:
How is this math working and what am I missing? If the Fiocchi primers in bulk are .026, how do you come up .0175? For your Vectan 9mm reload:

Vectan from Grafs is on special for $15/1.1#; buy a case of 10, add $7.95 fee plus $10 hazmat = $168/11.1# x 7000 grains = $168/77700= .0021 per grain. If you use ~ 5 grains per load = .0108/round + .026 for the primer = .0368 before bullet cost. Are you saying your bullet costs are ~ .01? Did that factor in the cost of the equipment as well? (I do not believe in factoring time as some of us are retired and have that available)
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I'm using S&B primers I stocked up on when they were on sale at Cabela's. No hazmat and free shipping. I bought multiple cases. $17.50/1000

I got the Vectan with free hazmat. Since I had to also order some hardware the shipping for the powder was free. Also there are 7700 gr per bottle with the Vectan. My charge is 3.1 grains. 7700/3.1 = 2483 loads. 15/2483 = .006 for the powder. So powder and primer are $0.0175+.$0.006 = $0.0235. Wheel weights are $0.25 a lb. 130 gr bullet. 7000/130 = 53 bullets per lb. .25/53 = .005 per bullet, aka one half cent per bullet. Total cost $0.0275 per round.
 
bds said:
Over 25 years of reloading, I have spent over $110,000 on various shooting and reloading costs. I told my wife I saved us over $150,000 in reloading cost over buying factory ammunition. For some reason, she is still not convinced. :D

My various C-H, Dillon, Herter, Lee and RCBS presses have been paid off long time ago. Believe me, cost of reloading equipment is small compared to cost of reloading components!
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I know the feeling. My wife really questioned if I needed another bullet mold. I've got close to a dozen 9mm molds but I didn't have a round nose.
 
Tex', you're basically calculating the variable costs based on existing inventory costs, with any labor/time value excluded. I'm sure we all believe that you are accurately reporting your numbers and then are doing the arithmetic correctly. It's just that isn't really predictive of what many other people would use to consider as the cost side of reloading. If they didn't buy S&B primers are $20/1000, and don't think they readily can, then that's not the right number for them, for instance.

Your math makes sense for you. The math would be different for some other folks. Basically, people ought to reload if that sounds interesting to them - and then they can use your variable-only-free-labor model to justify it! If it sounds like a big chore, they should include fixed costs and attach value to their time - and then use that number to convince themselves they can order bulk 9mm for cheaper than they can make it!
 
The math makes sense assuming you can get components for that cheap, but even for someone as budget minded as myself I couldn't match those numbers. I can get about 50 lbs of lead free per year, but that doesn't go very far and it's so much easier to just buy ingot's that I don't even ask my Dad for free wheel weights anymore. The hassle to sort and smelt then down isn't worth it. The last couple of times I had tires installed or work done on a car I asked about wheel weights, but every time the shop used zinc and just about everything in their recycle bins was zinc. I wouldn't have paid anything for the buckets I was shown.

For my basic 9mm/38 Special round I figure they cost about $.06 and leave it at that. $.03 for the primer, $.02 for the lead and $.01 for the powder. Any additional savings isn't worth the hassle for me.
 
Over 27 years of reloading, I have spent over $110,000 on various shooting and reloading costs. I told my wife I saved us over $150,000 in reloading cost over buying factory ammunition. For some reason, she is still not convinced.
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Tell her you would rather be hanging out at the bars with your pals and loose women, she will get you a 1050 for Christmas...
 
jmorris said:
Tell her you would rather be hanging out at the bars with your pals and loose women, she will get you a 1050 for Christmas...
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When my wife's friends asked her if she was OK with me spending so much money on shooting/reloading, she asked them "Do you really know where your husbands are when they say they are at the golf course? Do you check the bottom of the shoes when they come home to see if they really played golf? I know where my husband is when he is reloading and shooting because I am with him" :eek:;)

As to Dillon 1050, I went with 650 due to lifetime warranty and easier/lower cost of caliber change.

Sorry for the thread hijack, back to OP.
 
To me the only temptation of a 1050 is the extra stations making it possible to trim rifle brass in-line and on the press using their automatic trimmer. Other than that, I'm quite happy with my 650.
 
Time spent on:

Brass: Hard to quantify now as I have already picked up /acquired more than I will ever need for several more years,,, I also have a brass catcher I use at the range, so there really isn't any significant time spent 're-collecting' what I already have. (Empty net into shooting bag?)

Bullets + powder: Ordered online and shipped to my door. Not much time spent there,,,

Primers: Oddly enough, I typically grab primers while I'm out 'goofing off/killing time' at guns shows or Cabela's.

About all that's left in this 'time spent on' equation is tumbling brass and the time I spend at the press,,, (heck, I dunno,,, Couple hours in the tumbler and 50 cents worth of chemicals on ~1200~ 9 mm cases. Typically cranking on my LNL AP ~at the same time~ ,,,)

In 9mm, I'm around 11 - 12 cents p r (plated),, plus the time you see above,,,,.

Of course, if I had nothing to do and all day to do it, would I do it differently?

Eh, dunno,,, If I know me, I'd probably stay the course and add another Hobby or two, or three,,, :)
 
Usually it's the folks that are paying full retail price for all components, including (reusable) brass, by buying them in small quantities that can't justify the cost. Then, some of them will add in the "value of their time" to the cost, just to make it more expensive in their minds.
Buy in large quantities to take advantage of bulk savings, don't try to put a price on your hobby time, and it's easy to beat the high cost of ammo.!
 
I reload for the fun of it. I’ve never kept track of the cost. I don’t get that many chances to shoot but I really enjoy reloading and shooting what I made. I have reloading dies for every caliber that I own just for the hell of it. .380acp all the way to 45-70 black powder cartridges. Yee haw!
 
I started casting before I started shooting CAS/SASS, but then quickly realized, I was eating up far too much time casting 1,000-2,000 rounds per month, I went back to buying bullets.

There’s a sweet spot for retired folks who put no value on their time, enjoy casting and loading as much or more than they do shooting, and don’t shoot quiet enough to take up excessive time casting and loading.

There are guys who shoot dirt cheap loads from 30-06 using pistol powders and home cast bullets too, and I’ve been down that road myself. But the value in the product just isn’t there.

I’ve considered this at length, and in my retirement, I intend to create greater value with my time than would casting my own bullets, and continue to buy my leadcasts.
 
bds said:
Over 27 years of reloading, I have spent over $110,000 on various shooting and reloading costs. I told my wife I saved us over $150,000 in reloading cost over buying factory ammunition. For some reason, she is still not convinced. :D

My various C-H, Dillon, Herter, Lee and RCBS presses have been paid off long time ago. Believe me, cost of reloading equipment is small compared to cost of reloading components!
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Over 35 years, I have spent well over $150K on shooting shotguns (ammo and clay targets and fees); without reloading about 1/2 of the ammo, the costs would have easily been over $200K........... (and that doesn't include the over/unders)
 
Buying in quantity does have it's price advantages if you shoot that much. Wheel weights for two bits a pound? I haven't found scrap wheel weights for sale at any price for years and have quit looking for them.The last scrap lead I found was four bits a pound and it's been awhile so it's probably higher now.
 
Lead is over $1/pound; wheel weights are moving mostly to zinc, making most worthless. Tire places are getting smart and making money off whatever lead weights they recover.
 
doubleh said:
Wheel weights for two bits a pound? I haven't found scrap wheel weights for sale at any price for years and have quit looking for them.The last scrap lead I found was four bits a pound and it's been awhile so it's probably higher now.
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FYI, RMR is selling 12 BHN lead alloy bullet cores for $95 / 64 lbs (That's $1.48 / lb shipped with 5% THR discount code thehighroad5 and THR ID in order comment box) - https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr...llet-cores-approximately-12-brinnel-hardness/
 
If you look at it as a hobby of its own, and have the time for it, and don’t try to put a price on your time, it’s cheap and easily affordable. I have scrounged brass for years, every piece I can pick up comes home. Same with lead from the berms, any wheel weights I come across, and any other sources of lead I can find. Powder and primers I get locally and only buy powder in 8# jugs, and primers on sale 5k at a time minimum. Occasionally I’ll trade brass for components or whatever scrap I sell buys components. You can make this as cheap as possible, or just a lot cheaper than store bought.

If you shoot enough your hardware will be paid off quickly, I got a Loadmaster setup for 4 calibers, Lee Reloader, case trimmer, powder measure and scale etc and had it paid off in 4 months shooting 16k/year. I was blessed with 1/2 ton of free lead a while back from Craigslist so all I pay for is powder & primers now. Even if I was buying lead or plated/jacketed bullets, what I load is vastly superior to what is on the store shelves and is tuned to my guns. What price would you expect to pay for ammo you knew would shoot exceptionally well in your guns, with the accuracy you want, at the recoil level you want, or at the power factor you need? Whatever that number is, it is quite a bit more than it costs me to load mine.
 
I would have never thought this two years ago but I'm seriously considering another progressive press, either a 650 of another LnL. This simply so I can leave my presses set up for different calibers. True I shot by far more 9mm than anything else but when I need ammo I need it and at current levels of consumption I don't want to spend any more time than I have to putting ammo together.
 
ATLDave said:
they can order bulk 9mm for cheaper than they can make it!
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Dad lives 1000 miles away,,, Thought about shipping him some of my 9mm reloads...

My cost + shipping to him on 1k of reloads, after you figure the time/effort it would take me to ship it, makes ordering online/sending direct to him 1k of Russian steel case a no-brainer,,,

He doesn't really ~care~ what he shoots,,, Being able to pick up the spent casings with a magnet [instead of bending his 'well-worn, 6-4, dang near 80 yr old' self over to pick up individual pieces of brass on the ground by hand] is just icing on the cake! :D
 
well, if a guy told you he bought a brand new corvette, and it only cost him $4000 you probably wouldn't believe him. Of course if it was brand new in 1963 its simple enough. I pay around 12c per round with jacketed bullets, and have no trouble believing you, but I do ask anyone on the internet talking about primers/powder cheap to give a link. So far %100 percent of the time its either ignored, "lost", or "oh you have to wait for the sale". Not talking about the OP, because again, im paying only a little more for jacketed, but I see a lot of these, and its people who bought powder in the 80's or primers from an estate sale.
 
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