As seen here, some people can be hard to stop.

Some folks can take 6 rounds of 357 and still kill you. A gun isn't a magic wand. Make shots on target and MOVE! Find cover. It's not our job to arrest them. Only defend ourselves and those around us. I will say that lady is lucky.

“Some people are hard to stop!”

Absolutely true and I personally believe they would be hard to stop with any caliber shy of rifle or gauge. Unless you hit the OFF switch of course.

Shoot until the threat is stopped.

That is my takeaway.

Sometimes, capacity matters. If you run out of rounds then be prepared to run away, take cover, beat the perp with the butt of the empty gun, or deploy a backup weapon.

Regardless of the caliber used, this incident reinforces me carrying larger calibers.

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Must be stuck at home. I wish I could find the video of the lady shot in the neck with a 45cal and was talking with a towel pressed against her neck..or the guy who's shot in the shoulder with a 22 and goes down like a bag of dropped rocks.

Great that the G23 is the minimum(at least it's a Glock) FOR YOU but too many when considering a BIG gun to carry find that it's too big, too heavy, no fun to shoot(FTS leads to confidence in it's reliability and makes you a better shot) and they leave it at home cuz, 'just gonna be out for a few minutes'. OR 'not gonna shoot it today cuz it's no fun to shoot'..

BUT carry gun choice is the ultimate YMMV...

FFGCOLORADO said:

Must be stuck at home. I wish I could find the video of the lady shot in the neck with a 45cal and was talking with a towel pressed against her neck..or the guy who's shot in the shoulder with a 22 and goes down like a bag of dropped rocks.

Great that the G23 is the minimum(at least it's a Glock) FOR YOU but too many when considering a BIG gun to carry find that it's too big, too heavy, no fun to shoot(FTS leads to confidence in it's reliability and makes you a better shot) and they leave it at home cuz, 'just gonna be out for a few minutes'. OR 'not gonna shoot it today cuz it's no fun to shoot'..

BUT carry gun choice is the ultimate YMMV...

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I can shoot a Glock 21 pretty darn good at an indoor range but when it comes to quick draw and shoot, it takes a day and a half longer than a Glock 17!

CDW4ME said:

Regardless of the caliber used, this incident reinforces me carrying larger calibers.
The point is not what the officer did.
Generalize beyond this specific incident to "Some people can be hard to stop".
At about 1:10 into the video you can see someone act like bullet wounds are bee stings.


There is nowhere I'd rather defend myself with a pocket 380/38 snub than a Glock 23.
My philosophy: Of the concealable pistols you own, strive to carry the one you would prefer in hand if you had to defend yourself, regardless of location.
For me, Glock 23 minimum.

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It's really hard to say a different caliber would have changed much.

A shot placement discussion might be more appropriate. If the officer would have taken a head shot after the first 4 to 12 shots to center mass didn't work, the bad guy would have fallen instantly.

cslinger said:

Unless you hit the OFF switch of course.

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There is a gun store robbery video that has floated around the forum for a few years, where the gun store counter worker did just that.

Unless you hit a vital part of the central nervous system, there are no guarantees regardless of caliber.

Hunters here have seen deer take off and run after their heart and lungs were destroyed.

Adrenaline and drugs can also make a big difference.

While the guy didn't go down right away, IMHO, the threat was stopped immediately. The arm with the gun never rose after the initial hits and it appeared the guy was dazed and disorientated. Similar to a deer that has been shot thru both lungs and the heart with an ought-six. They walk away, stagger for a while and then stand dazed for a few seconds until they fall. Could have been drugs, or adrenaline that helped keep him on his feet for a few seconds, but he was a dead man walking. Police shootings and the average SD shooting are very different scenarios. Had the victim had a .38 or .380 and taken the guy point blank in his chest at the onset of the attack, things may have been very different.

What is the OFF switch in this context?

buck460XVR said:

Police shootings and the average SD shooting are very different scenarios.

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Agreed wholeheartedly. Producing any gun will dissuade most bad guys, and firing it will back down all but a very select few who are intent on causing harm. In those very few cases the caliber and capacity matter, but not nearly as much as shot placement.

General Geoff said:

What is the OFF switch in this context?

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Central nervous system. Spinal cut, brain pan etc. basically cutting the electrical system down.

That said stopping a threat may be as simple as the threat having a Holy Stuff moment and deciding being shot at isn’t fun and changing zip codes.

Speedo66 said:

Unless you hit a vital part of the central nervous system, there are no guarantees regardless of caliber.

Hunters here have seen deer take off and run after their heart and lungs were destroyed.

Adrenaline and drugs can also make a big difference.

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All true.

I do pay attention to the guys over on the revolver sub-forum that do a lot of handgun hunting, such as MaxP and others. I always note, when those guys need to stop something that can hurt them, right now, they aren't choosing a fast, lightweight, rapidly expanding bullet, which is something the personal defense folks seem to gravitate towards.

I don't know who is right, but they seem to choose different paths to reach their solution.

JTQ said:

I do pay attention to the guys over on the revolver sub-forum that do a lot of handgun hunting, such as MaxP and others. I always note, when those guys need to stop something that can hurt them, right now, they aren't choosing a fast, lightweight, rapidly expanding bullet, which is something the personal defense folks seem to gravitate towards.

I don't know who is right, but they seem to choose different paths to reach their solution.

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It boils down to using the appropriate bullet for the situation at hand. Getting thru to the boiler room of a human is greatly different than getting to the boiler room of a dangerous game animal. Position of the organs and the position of bone and tissue is very different. So is the mass between a 180# human and an 800# Grizzly. Then there's the topic of over-penetration. No such thing when it comes to Water Buffalo, but inside your house with you kids sleeping in the next room? There are different paths to reach the solution because the solution is different.

It also boils down to shot placement - shots to the brain tend to stop things DRT

Here's another example of a bad guy who was tough to stop, even with the legendary 45 auto;

https://www.policeone.com/officer-s...5-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/

Lots of folks get shot and live. A round to the brain usually makes them stop and think.

army_eod said:

Lots of folks get shot and live. A round to the brain usually makes them stop and think.

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Or conversely...... stop thinking. Just saying.

earlthegoat2 said:

Shoot until the threat is stopped.
That is my takeaway.
Sometimes, capacity matters. If you run out of rounds then be prepared to run away, take cover, beat the perp with the butt of the empty gun, or deploy a backup weapon.

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"I count six shots."
"I count two guns."
I agree, keep pulling the trigger until the threat stops advancing.

Kleanbore writes:

There are differences in the encounters that involve police vs civilian shootings,such as pursuit, arrests, interventions in fights, but I do not see anything in the video that would not apply in a civilian shooting. What might it be?

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Interventions in fights. In this video, the officer is doing something that most armed citizens would not be duty-bound to do. The officer failed to act like a normal citizen and simply flee because he was obligated to prolong the encounter.

I agree with the assessment that bullets in any other common handgun caliber would likely have had a similar effect had they hit the exact same places at the exact same times.

It's certainly alarming that the subject was able to, momentarily at least, shrug off what appeared to be several direct hits, but it's nothing uncommon. It's also a stark reminder of what one might end up against should they actually engage in someone else's fight.