Theoretical long-range rifle on a tight budget. Difficulty: Left-hand. Hunting use irrelevant.

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1KPerDay

1KPerDay

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Howdy,
I hesitate to ask this because I imagine I'm going to get a LOT of recommendations to "buy once, cry once" and spend $5K+ on a PRS competition rig. Here's the deal:

I signed up for an intro to long range shooting class in July. The requirement is that my rig have a good bipod and be capable of a 5-shot 1-MOA or less group at 100 yards, and I have to send a pic of the target before the class.

I was planning to take my SCAR-17 and AccuPower 1-8 (don't snicker) since that's what I have and I have no idea how to shoot it at any sort of range, and I figure the class will help in that regard whether or not I can go out to 1000+ with it. It has a Timney trigger in it, or I could swap out the Geissele from my 16.

They offer rental rifles for $250 that include " $250 Rental Package includes a rifle, optics, bubble level, sidewinder, bipod, rear bag, shooting mat, and 100 rounds of match-grade factory ammunition. Additional ammo is available for $30 per box of 20."

I'm leaning toward renting now, since I have no idea whether I'll like or be acceptably good at LR rifle shooting, though I'm sure I'll enjoy the class regardless, and the instructor emailed everyone and was pretty adamant about having a solid rig with solid optics.

After reading through some of Walkalong's pinned PRS rifle thread I flirted briefly with getting a Havak or Tikka T3 Tact A1 or Bergara or something, but that plus an optic would be at least 3 grand and I simply don't have the budget, and IMO it would be silly at this point to spend that much for a setup with zero knowledge of long range type shooting, or whether I'll even enjoy that particular hobby.

So here's what I'm thinking, and I'd appreciate your thoughts. Keep in mind that buying a $2000+ setup is NOT AN OPTION right now.

Option 1: run what I brung (SCAR-17+AccuPower) and learn as much as I can, and hopefully get capable of hitting out to 600+ with it.

Option 2: Rental rifle, and take SCAR along for fun/after hours and hopefully see what it'll do (this is where I'm leaning right now)

Option 3: Buy a cheap bolt gun that is hopefully capable of MOA 5-shot groups and try to find a 15X-20X optic for cheap before the class. Could use opinions on Savage or any other "budget" LH options that may be usable. No idea the differences between the 110, 11, 111, and Axis: https://www.savagearms.com/content?...ary=off&fsingle=off&ftop=off&ftube=off&fsamt=

In the case that I try to buy, I could use opinions on the available calibers. I assume OF THE ONES OFFERED 6.5 Creed would be the most appropriate? I kinda like the idea of .243 because I have a lot of .308 brass, but I'm sure that's false economy. From what I've absorbed from Varmintterror's posts and others, the 6mms are the way to go if you are really serious about PRS. I was thinking 6mm creed would be probably best for a newbie (but it isn't available at least from Savage in the budget I need) but maybe .308 or .243 would be adequate IF I BUY a rifle.

Option 4: Dad's RH .270 Winchester deer rifle on a Springfield 1903 action, and spend some dough on a nicer scope and bipod. Not sure whether it's MOA capable for more than 3 shots; barrel is not free floated, sling swivel attached through the stock to the barrel, etc.

Option 5: I have access to a loaner Savage Edge .308 RH, and I could maybe buy some goodish glass and a 20MOA rail and get it set up in time for the class. No idea if it's MOA capable. Trigger is not the accu-trigger and feels like about 7 lbs and creepy.

Thanks for listening and for any advice.
 
I would rent instructor supplied equipment for a class vs buy a bunch of cheap stuff and hope or wish and perhaps not even be able to use it anyway.

That said, I have combinations that I have less than 2k into and shoot submoa, do you have all the other stuff you need to get the most out of the class already?

$250 Rental Package includes a rifle, optics, bubble level, sidewinder, bipod, rear bag, shooting mat, and 100 rounds of match-grade factory ammunition.
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$2000 is too much, that’s OK we all have budgets. How much do we have to spend and what all do we have to buy with that amount?

How much did the class itself cost you?
 
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Personally, I think this would be a great place to start based on your wants and needs:

https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/savage-110-tactical-6.5-creed-24-hb-thread-lh-accufit-stock

Savages are known for being very accurate if a little rough around the edges and have good aftermarket support. You get an Accutrigger which is great and the accufit stock is somewhat adjustable and uses aluminum bedding which should make it a little more stout than your typical polymer stock. Also has a threaded barrel in case you want to put a brake on it. Leaves plenty of money for a quality optic and the Savage 10/11 line had plenty of aftermarket support in the way of stocks and chassis. And, 6.5 seems like the go to caliber for long range precision work these days.
 
All of my Savage rifles are left handed with their heavy varmint barrels. I have a 17m2, 22lr and 308, and they all shoot great. The 308 is definitely 1 MOA at 100 yards. My Model 12 308 has a Bushnell Elite 6-24 MILDOT scope on it. I can highly recommend Savage rifles for the price.

I suggest weighing your options as far as buying a rifle versus renting one for the class. Sometimes it can be hard to find any left hand rifles in stock. Most manufacturers that make left hand rifles only produce them in batches.
 
I don't know much about long range precision shooting. But I do know I spent too much money messing around with the concept. All that gear is long gone now. It just wasn't my thing, though perhaps I would have enjoyed it more if I'd sought instruction, like you are doing.

I'm also a lefty, and if I were in your position, I would rent from them. To get the rifle and 100 rounds of ammo (that presumably they know works well in the particular rifle) doesn't sound bad at all. Based on their price for additional ammo, the cost of that 100 rounds is $150, so the rental of the rifle is only $100. Yes, I'm sure match grade ammo can cost less, but then you have to find a load that works well for the rifle you're using. $250 for trouble free shooting? I'd take that.
 
Rent - if they have a lefty available. Even if their rentals are just Magpul 700’s with Viper’s on top, you’ll be better off than sinking money into a half-solution. Email them and find out what rigs they have.

$250 is cheap. Looks like they include 100rnds, and require 150, so add another $90, call it $350. 150 rounds of ammo on your own will be ~$100 reloaded or $150-200 for factory ammo - so you’re really only spending $150-250 as fixed, sunk cost into the rental. So let’s say you buy a $400 Savage and a Bushnell MatchPro or Vortex Diamondback Tactical for another $400, then bolt it together with $80 rings and a $30 bubble - let’s say you already have a bipod and can make your own “sidewinder” (data holder). You’re about $1000 into it, with resale on the scope and rifle somewhere around $100 less for each - sinking the same $150-250, but requiring more legwork on your part. The 70¢/rnd value I’m using for reloaded ammo would not apply, however, to your out of pocket spend - you’ll have over $1 per round to get 150-200 rounds loaded, plus any load workup you’ll do on the way.

Coming out of the course, if you decide you want more, then you can take your time and budget towards something more suitable instead of punting. Following the Savage link you shared, there’s nothing I saw there which I would favor for long Range work - although I’d bet 90% of them (less the slug gun) would deliver sub-moa precision at range.

Considering cartridges, I’d rather have 6.5 creed than 243win for long range shooting, unless I can pick the twist rate. Making small primed 243win brass from Lapua Palma brass is not false economy - but it is extra work. If I were not competing, just casually plinking to 1200, I’d shoot a 6.5 creed over a 6 creed.

If they only have right hand rentals, I’d be willing to bet their options will shoot as well or better than the options you described, and won’t require an optics purchase - so if you’d be stuck with a RH rifle anyway, use theirs which will be proven and already set up.
 
jmorris said:
I would rent instructor supplied equipment for a class vs buy a bunch of cheap stuff and hope or wish and perhaps not even be able to use it anyway.

That said, I have combinations that I have less than 2k into and shoot submoa, do you have all the other stuff you need to get the most out of the class already?



$2000 is too much, that’s OK we all have budgets. How much do we have to spend and what all do we have to buy with that amount?

How much did the class itself cost you?
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Class is $400+food+motel+travel+$20 range fees. Rental rifle $250 plus probably another $100 for extra ammo.

Honestly I don't have ANY budget for a rifle right now and I'll be digging into savings I shouldn't be digging into. But that savage tactical LH that BigBL87 posted looks very tempting to me. Wonder why it doesn't show up on savage's site?

Wronghanded you make a lot of sense. It seemed like a good deal to me, too. However I haven't heard back whether they offer any LH rental rifles, and I'm kinda thinking they probably don't.

I assume that's a big deal, if you're locked in with your offhand on a rear bag, to have to remove it and run the bolt etc. Maybe it doesn't matter. But some RH rifle combs aren't lefty friendly, for one thing.
 
Varminterror said:
Rent - if they have a lefty available. Even if their rentals are just Magpul 700’s with Viper’s on top, you’ll be better off than sinking money into a half-solution. Email them and find out what rigs they have.

$250 is cheap. Looks like they include 100rnds, and require 150, so add another $90, call it $350. 150 rounds of ammo on your own will be ~$100 reloaded or $150-200 for factory ammo - so you’re really only spending $150-250 as fixed, sunk cost into the rental. So let’s say you buy a $400 Savage and a Bushnell MatchPro or Vortex Diamondback Tactical for another $400, then bolt it together with $80 rings and a $30 bubble - let’s say you already have a bipod and can make your own “sidewinder” (data holder). You’re about $1000 into it, with resale on the scope and rifle somewhere around $100 less for each - sinking the same $150-250, but requiring more legwork on your part. The 70¢/rnd value I’m using for reloaded ammo would not apply, however, to your out of pocket spend - you’ll have over $1 per round to get 150-200 rounds loaded, plus any load workup you’ll do on the way.

Coming out of the course, if you decide you want more, then you can take your time and budget towards something more suitable instead of punting. Following the Savage link you shared, there’s nothing I saw there which I would favor for long Range work - although I’d bet 90% of them (less the slug gun) would deliver sub-moa precision at range.

Considering cartridges, I’d rather have 6.5 creed than 243win for long range shooting, unless I can pick the twist rate. Making small primed 243win brass from Lapua Palma brass is not false economy - but it is extra work. If I were not competing, just casually plinking to 1200, I’d shoot a 6.5 creed over a 6 creed.

If they only have right hand rentals, I’d be willing to bet their options will shoot as well or better than the options you described, and won’t require an optics purchase - so if you’d be stuck with a RH rifle anyway, use theirs which will be proven and already set up.
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Thank you. I really appreciate your feedback. :cool: I have emailed them and asked about LH rentals but haven't heard back yet.
 
As some one else suggested I too would recommend you rent from the people offering the class as it is probably proven that their rifles are already MOA. I own two hunting rifles that I have always used for long distance shooting as well and they are all factory rifles with maybe some tweaking I did like bedding them. Both of my rifles are a 110 Savage and a Tikka T3 lite in 30-06 caliber.

A couple of years ago I was zeroing my Tikka at 200 yards getting ready for a hunt when this man began to set up next to me. He worked for some gun magazine and he had this beautiful custom made rifle with a carbon barrel and a rifle scope that was more powerful than my spotting scope. We both began to shoot at our targets and when he was done he almost had a clover leaf 3 shot group but were not touching. He allowed me to look through his scope and as I assumed it was more powerful than my spotting scope. My shot group measure about .718 with factory ammo and his measure less than mine. He was very impressed with his shot group . When I asked him how much his set up cost he proudly puffed his chest and stated $9000. I looked at mine and my set up was about $900 the tikka plus my sightron scope. I could not see spending 8100 dollars more to get a couple of thousands of an inch smaller than my group. My rifle was still sub moa.

So to reiterate I recommend you rent and take the class this way when you make a purchase for a scope and a rifle it will be a purchase you make that is informed and with some experience behind it. Especially when it comes to rifles and scopes. You don't necessarily need a scope with a ton of magnification power because if you leave in a region where it is very hot, high magnification will not be able to be utilized as well as the lower power in very hot conditions.
 
The instructor just emailed back and said they don't have any LH rentals but he's going to talk to his co-instructor who is a lefty and see if they'll let me borrow one of his. And they say they have an SPR that will work if that doesn't pan out. He also is a full-line optics dealer and says he can rent me some good glass for the SCAR as an option. So I guess that'll be my failsafe.
 
I was going to repeat my “save big, buy used” mantra but it seems like LH rifles don’t last long when they are put up for sale. More demand than supply.

My suggestion is to buy a LH savage....and.. *kack*...chambered in....*kack* 6.5 *kack* CREED!

whew, that was hard to get out. :barf:
 
1KPerDay said:
The instructor just emailed back and said they don't have any LH rentals but he's going to talk to his co-instructor who is a lefty and see if they'll let me borrow one of his. And they say they have an SPR that will work if that doesn't pan out. He also is a full-line optics dealer and says he can rent me some good glass for the SCAR as an option. So I guess that'll be my failsafe.
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I am a lefty and I do not limit myself to left hand only firearms. As a matter of fact I prefer the right hand bolt rifles as it allows me to operate the bolt with having to lose my sight picture and moving my cheek weld.
 
ms6852 said:
I am a lefty and I do not limit myself to left hand only firearms. As a matter of fact I prefer the right hand bolt rifles as it allows me to operate the bolt with having to lose my sight picture and moving my cheek weld.
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Is this from a bench or prone from a mat/bag/bipod?
 
1KPerDay said:
Is this from a bench or prone from a mat/bag/bipod?
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Prone and bench and on occasion free hand with free hand being a little harder if you have a long barrel and the rifle is forward heavy otherwise I find the left hand rifle only useful in free hand where I support the rifle in the forearm with the right arm extended for better balance control. I own both types of rifles LH and RH and for bench and prone with bipod I prefer RH rifles.
 
1KPerDay said:
Honestly I don't have ANY budget for a rifle right now and I'll be digging into savings I shouldn't be digging into. But that savage tactical LH that BigBL87 posted looks very tempting to me. Wonder why it doesn't show up on savage's site?
Click to expand...

You'll find that happens alot with Savage. They do quite a few limited runs, vendor exclusive models, and just one off runs that they don't end up listing. My Savage 10 FCP isn't/wasn't on their site, at least in its specific configuration. I believe it was a special run, heck maybe just using left over parts from other model runs?

In any event, if you want to buy it's a hard deal to beat. If I were to try to dip my foot into long range, it's what I'd choose. The nice thing is it still would be usable outside of dedicated long range since it's not a SUPER heavy barrel.

My Savage is a HOSS weight wise, but that's to be expected since I dropped it in a Choate Tactical stock and with it being a heavy barrel model. And with long range, that's not neccesarily a bad thing.
 
Nature Boy said:
I was going to repeat my “save big, buy used” mantra but it seems like LH rifles don’t last long when they are put up for sale. More demand than supply.

My suggestion is to buy a LH savage....and.. *kack*...chambered in....*kack* 6.5 *kack* CREED!

whew, that was hard to get out. :barf:
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest the 6.5 Creed too.

OP,

As far as left hand vs right hand rifles, I can give you my personal experience. Off hand/standing shots I definitely prefer a lefty rifle. Prone it's a toss up. Bench shooting with a good rest and it really doesn't matter as long as the stock is correct for you. The offset combs on most Monti Carlo style stocks will be wrong if you are using a right hand rifle left handed and visa versa. I hunted many years with right hand rifles and they sure make quick follow up shots more difficult for us left hand shooters.

As much as I like my Savage rifles and recommend them especially for the price point. I would go ahead and rent a rifle for the class to see if it is really something you want to get into.

With my Savage Model 12 heavy barrel 308, I can get nice clover leaf groups at 100 yards when I have a good day. The rifle is definitely more accurate than I am. If you decide to buy a Savage, I would look for a Model 10/110 in your caliber of choice with the heave varmint barrel. Nothing wrong with their Axis line but there is more aftermarket support for the 10/110 series and I prefer the recoil lug on them over the recoil lug setup of the Axis.
 
I had your rifle, but sold it about a year ago. An older Remington 700 Sendero in 7 mag with the heavy barrel and a 6.5-20x40 Leupold VX-III on .020 Burris mounts. HS Precision stock. Trigger was reworked to break at about a pound. It went with 100 rounds of hand loaded match grade ammo. $1,000

Sold it to my best friend’s son. Point is, there might be something out there in that category that would fit your needs should you decide to go that route. That said, I’d probably go the rental route.

Sounds like fun. Looking back, wish I’d done more things like you’re doing. Hope you enjoy it.
 
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Another RENT! I
you arnt into it, no point in buying the savage. If you get suuuuuper into it, youll likely want something nicer than the savage in the long run.

The savage would be a good purchase after the class if you enjoy it, but arnt dead set on a full blown rig.
 
Option 1- I would rent. You will know for sure at the end if you want a rifle similar to the one you rented, and you may have the opportunity to fire other student's rifles, or at least talk to them about what they have. Also, don't forget that if you buy a rifle, you will also need a scope, mounts, etc. If I were to buy a precision rifle right now, I would buy a Ruger precision in 308, even though I think 6.5 CM is a better round- only because I think the 308 barrel would last longer. BTW, I grew up on the M24 and M40 style rifles (Remington 700 based). I would not buy a current production 700. As for the lefty thing, I will say that 11% of everyone is a lefty. The military doesn't issue lefty weapons, yet the lefties do fine with the issued weapons.
 
Put me in the "rent it" camp. I took a long range rifle class years ago. I had my own gear, but it was instructive to see the various rigs people in the class brought as well as those the instructors had. I learned a great deal that would have been helpful to know before I made my own investment.
 
1KPerDay said:
The instructor just emailed back and said they don't have any LH rentals but he's going to talk to his co-instructor who is a lefty and see if they'll let me borrow one of his. And they say they have an SPR that will work if that doesn't pan out. He also is a full-line optics dealer and says he can rent me some good glass for the SCAR as an option. So I guess that'll be my failsafe.
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Rent it, in the mean time consider that left bolt right eject actions exist for right handed shooters on the bench, trigger hand and cheek don't move, as a righty who has enjoyed lefty bolts almost as much as anything else, learn the bolt motion in your living room with even a .22 right handed, after some practice I'm thinking it won't be terrible. The only big downfalls to offside shooting I've encountered are careful ejecting hot brass, and this one shouldn't matter on a rig setup for what you're talking about, the rh Monte Carlo stocks aren't as comfy for lh shooters, a prs stock shouldn't matter.
 
Honestly I don't have ANY budget for a rifle right now and I'll be digging into savings I shouldn't be digging into.
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That would seal the deal on rent for me. I am one of those guys that looks at rental and leasing as flushing money towards no principal but if you buy new and have to sell, that’s the same thing. I also don’t like to borrow money even from myself, so I understand your reluctance.

The instructor just emailed back and said they don't have any LH rentals but he's going to talk to his co-instructor who is a lefty and see if they'll let me borrow one of his.
Click to expand...

That might be even better than the trickle down rental stuff.

I really don’t like figuring out I wasted money, it would be a downer to have a bunch of new stuff that I realize isn’t going to work very well for an undertaking I just started.
 
horsey300 said:
Rent it, in the mean time consider that left bolt right eject actions exist for right handed shooters on the bench, trigger hand and cheek don't move, as a righty who has enjoyed lefty bolts almost as much as anything else, learn the bolt motion in your living room with even a .22 right handed, after some practice I'm thinking it won't be terrible. The only big downfalls to offside shooting I've encountered are careful ejecting hot brass, and this one shouldn't matter on a rig setup for what you're talking about, the rh Monte Carlo stocks aren't as comfy for lh shooters, a prs stock shouldn't matter.
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Yeah, for bench shooting I could go either way and I wouldn't care. I believe the shooting we're doing is positional/prone, and having to remove the hand holding the rear bag every shot to run the bolt might be a PITA.

I've run RH bolt guns in 3-gun matches so I know it can be done.... it's just not ideal, and I have no clue about LR shooting so I figure I may as well get a proper setup for the way I shoot.
 
Shooting a right handed rifle lefty from a bench isn't a handicap, and only a minor handicap otherwise. In fact there have been a few rifles made for right handed shooter over the years with the bolt handle on the left side and ejection port on the right side because it is easier to operate that way from a bench.

Here is a link discussing the concept.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/right-handed-shooter-left-bolt.55466/

For what you want to do I'd buy a right handed rifle and learn how to use it.
 
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