Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

High five!

@Walkalong - sounds like you enjoyed the day then?

Boiler plate post-match questions I consider:

1) How did the rifle & bag(s) run?

2) How did you feel you ran the rifle & bags?

3) Did you time out on any stages with rounds left? If yes, why?

That’s how all of the matches I have been too so far have been. Once we entered “Phase 1” and the Governor’s emergency executive powers to prosecute violators of her “guidance” expired (May 1), then we basically went back to normal. No meals and indoors banquets after matches so far, but I’m betting the 2 day we have in 2wks will still do something of the sort.

We shot a match last wknd which had three stages under a lean-to like that, it was 102 and super exposed in the sun and heat everywhere else on the range, so guys took their time on those 3 stages in the shade. I bet there were 30-35 of us under the lean-to in a ~10’x30’ length, rotating one squad in and out at a time as the stages were finished.

Walkalong said:

Adams reply today:



Today it shows "Add to Cart" vs simply "Out of Stock" like it did the other day. It's always said 7 to 8 week wait, at least since I first saw it after it was recommended anyway.

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It’s worth the wait

The Auto-Trickler is on my wish list. Already have the scale.

How do you drop your initial charge before trickling up?

Legionnaire said:

The Auto-Trickler is on my wish list. Already have the scale.

How do you drop your initial charge before trickling up?

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I’m not sure if @Walkalong has the entire set up, but most of us have both the Auto-throw and Auto-Trickler, the Throw is a Lee PPM dropping into the pan, then the Trickle cleans up the slack.

The precision of the system is amazing, but certainly overkill for any well developed load, but the real advantage is the SPEED. One machine throwing a charge every ~9seconds with precision almost an order of magnitude tighter than the common dispensers like Chargemaster/Autocharge/Intellidropper/Lyman, and ~100% reliability vs. ~80-90% is a HUGE advantage when loading high volumes of precision ammunition such as when shooting PRS/NRL. I had two Chargemasters and then added a Lyman Gen5 to run 3 at a time, using another scale as a “master” to weigh all charges when I first started shooting PRS, and I still couldn’t keep up with the Auto-Throw & Trickle set up. The hand moving and correcting so many of the charges meant adding the 3rd really didn’t increase my speed. I had THOUGHT two at ~25-30 sec each, let alone THREE, would be as fast as one machine at 9-10 sec each, but it didn’t pan out. Not to mention, at retail value, I had more cost sitting on more bench real estate at that point.

Not to derail the thread in any way (if it can be at this point), but I’ll share here a bit of frustration from a match this wknd.

I haven’t been practicing nearly enough this season, and my match performance has been commensurate (as always), but this weekend was a new experience for me, and I did not manage it well. I struggled a bit the first day, just wasn’t disciplined in my positions, target holds, and trigger management, which I chalked up to my lack of practice - compounded by high and unreliable winds, the first day was ugly for me. On the first stage of the second day, however, I made the first two rounds on the first target with high speed and great trigger control - the 3rd shot, second target, fell far low below the target. Hit to advance, so I glanced to confirm my data and my dial, sent another, low again - huh, that’s weird... I measured and corrected a half mil, hit the target twice. I dialed and moved to the 3rd target, held on target and dropped low. Confirmed data, sent another, low again. Added the half mil again, hit high, then pogo’d back and forth, until my 10 rounds were up. Well that sucked... let’s go check this out...

I ran over to the zero board, sent 3 rounds into 1 hole, but .4-5mil low!!!

I pulled out the torque wrench and checked my ring and cap screws - all at spec. Pulled the scope off of the rail - all at spec. Checked the action screws - at spec. So I put it back together and confirmed zero - no shift, but that .4mil persisted.

So I stayed dialed for .4, then I shot a box test to check the scope, 5 rounds, first on target, dialed a mil left and shot one, mil down shot one, mil right shot one, mil up, and stacked the 5th round on top of the 1st. At this point I felt confident I had my poop in a group and despite the discomfort of having my glass in the grass during a match for the first time, I felt confident to move on to the next stage.

Second stage went pretty well, I guessed too much wind at a close target, corrected and ran on plate until the last target out past 900 where I slipped one off of the plate on the upwind side. Confidence was high.

Then it all came apart on the 3rd stage, and it didn’t get any better the rest of the day. SOMEWHERE in my rig, SOMETHING was moving. Most shots were landing in that new zero, but a few in each stage would inexplicably jump over the target. I’ve never had any reason to doubt my rifle, so admittedly, I did NOT manage it well. Even on shots which shot to my zero, I wasn’t making good trigger strokes and wasn’t making good adjustments to my wind calls - focusing too much on watching whether a shot would fly high or land on my waterline, and I dropped probably twice as many points as the gremlins actually had cost me. Definitely not how I wanted that match to go.

Now I have my work cut out for me this week: a mystery .4mil gremlin is living inside my rifle, and I have to find it before this weekend to be ready for practice before another match the following weekend - else I have to get the new barrel broken in on my other rifle quickly and hydroform a bunch of new brass, or be stuck shooting one of my gas guns. I’m disheartened by the breakdown which effectively wasted my match, angry I couldn’t mechanically troubleshoot and resolve it at the match, and disappointed in the fact I let it break my focus to the extent I did. I did not like the feeling of not knowing where my bullet was going to strike, but I absolutely despise the way I responded - I was completely blind to anything in my scope except the target and the splash. I totally overlooked obvious wind indicators which could have kept my horizontal in line, but I was overly focused on my vertical and made simple mistakes which cost me as much or more as the actual problem itself.

Not my worst day living, but one of my worst days shooting, and I don’t intend to let it repeat.

Just thinking out loud here

Varminterror said:

I struggled a bit the first day, just wasn’t disciplined in my positions, target holds, and trigger management, which I chalked up to my lack of practice - compounded by high and unreliable winds

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Are you sure it wasn't a few missed wind calls that pushed your shots low and had you chasing your tail?

Varminterror said:

Most shots were landing in that new zero, but a few in each stage would inexplicably jump over the target.

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If it's a mechanical issue wouldn't manifest itself in a more consistent manor?

I'll be following your analysis with interest. Good luck!

Ditto. I'll be interested to hear what you learn from your analysis.

@Nature Boy - I wish I thought it was that simple.

Day one I struggled with wind, and I MIGHT have been so focused on my failures in following the wind that I admit I might have missed the elevation issue, but my spotters (squad spot option) never said anything about elevation, only wind. And the wind sucked. Shifting direction and variable speeds, I had impacts on target within the same stage between 4mph right to 16mph left, and one stage at 28mph top bracket call. Being in the near full-value direction was actually nicer than being in the head or tail. I didn’t read well, didn’t spot well, and I was frustrated. But my spotters called windage after stage, not elevation.

Day 2, the wind was 0-2mph in the morning, and I noticed the issue on my 3rd shot of the day in a straight up hold. It was the same .4 offset throughout the day even when holding for a 12mph wind (highest hold of the day was 12). We also shot ~300 degrees from stage 11 to 20, and I’d see the same .4 regardless of wind angle or speed. It also wasn’t gaining with range - I’d see the same .4 jump at 300 as I saw at 900, and had the same at 100. I checked my zero on the 100yard board and was .4 under. Dialed up .4 and reset my turret, then would sail .4 high on some rounds in each stage - variable wind would push more or less. And of course, if I missed the windcall enough to have .4 elevation, I would have had windage miss too - but most were right above the target.

We were speculating wildly in my squad by the end of the day, because it didn’t make any sense at all.

I REALLY thought checking the zero, doing the box test, and checking the screws would solve it. It COULD be a bad optic still, but I wouldn’t expect a regular bounce back and forth if it was holding zero at all. But I’ll power through and figure it out.

Well, when you figure it out we’ll all learn something from your efforts

Nature Boy said:

Well, when you figure it out we’ll all learn something from your efforts

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Or... I’ll just throw it in the river...

Since the rings and base were/are tight, I’m betting on the scope, but frustrated that it is not more obvious. Really hoping it’s that simple, not excited about tearing off this barrel when it’s only halfway done.