Self defense loads for .223

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Hog huntin Harry said:
What loads would y'all recommend for self defense in .223 ?
I was thinking along the lines of a 55 grain GMX or 73 grain critical defense.
Click to expand...

Hog huntin Harry said:
How well would a 55 grain GMX preform ?
Click to expand...

First off... my apologizes for side tracking your thread.

What barrel length ? Is your rifle chambered in .223 ? or a true 5.56 chamber ? ( The difference being the greater amount of freebore / leade in a 5.56 chamber )

Are you looking for a Blind Barrier round or a soft skinned round ?

Here is a link to the current Hornady LEO line up.
Ballistic gel shots for all the FBI barriers.

The link might help your Hornady choices.

https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/#!/
 
bfoosh006 said:
First off... my apologizes for side tracking your thread.

What barrel length ? Is your rifle chambered in .223 ? or a true 5.56 chamber ? ( The difference being the greater amount of freebore / leade in a 5.56 chamber )

Are you looking for a Blind Barrier round or a soft skinned round ?

Here is a link to the current Hornady LEO line up.
Ballistic gel shots for all the FBI barriers.

The link might help your Hornady choices.

https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/#!/
Click to expand...
No problem at all, the rifle is a S&W M&P 15 sport ll. It's got a 16 inch barrel, and the chamber is 5.56x45.
 
Hog huntin Harry said:
It would be much more helpful if y'all were debating over 55 grain Barnes TSX vs 55 grain Hornady V-max, or something of that nature. I personally would not use M193 or M855 for anything other than plinking.

There's no point to me using El cheapo FMJ or steel core that may or may not fragment/yaw.
Click to expand...

Well...

It's inexpensive because they manufacture it in a Government plant (LC) by the million rounds, and then sell off the over-run and non-spec rounds for cheap.

It was effective enough for the Government to field it to troops in conflict in dense jungle environments.

Any contrary data, outside of Dr. Martin Fackler's singular rocket-ship-to-stardom incident, has still yet to be provided.

Only association, fallacy, and innuendo.


Buy whatever cool-aid you like.

In your particular carbine, there may be better choices.


But if you don't think it works? You have been conned, and have not done your homework or due-diligence.

Both the IDF and NATO forces still use it.


Skip ahead to "the meat target" ballistic test at time stamp 13:30...

​



It is your money they are parting.

:D


Good luck.




GR
 
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Garandimal said:
Well...

It's inexpensive because they manufacture it in a Government plant (LC) by the million rounds, and then sell off the over-run and non-spec rounds for cheap.

It was effective enough for the Government to field it to troops in conflict in dense jungle environments.

Any contrary data, outside of Dr. Martin Fackler's singular rocket-ship-to-stardom incident, has still yet to be provided.

Only association, fallacy, and innuendo.


Buy whatever cool-aid you like.

In your particular carbine, there may be better choices.


But if you don't think it works? You have been conned, and have not done your homework or due-diligence.

Both the IDF and NATO forces still use it.


It is your money they are parting.

:D


Good luck.



GR
Click to expand...
Dude, SERIOUSLY?
 
I'll share one anecdote regarding 62gr XM855. I shot a fun hit-or-miss match at hanging firewood at 100 yds. Logs were dry hardwood, average 4 inches diameter. Some larger logs were split in half. The idea was that the scorer with a spotting scope would see the log jiggle for each hit. I hit a few but otherwise was having a really bad day with lots of misses. After my relay we went to check the logs and I had hit far more than I thought. The point is that XM855 went through 4 inches of wood without a discernible jiggle. I'm not making any argument or assertion as to it's suitability for self defense ammo but that stuff really penetrates. It's also not terribly accurate which was also mentioned in the video as well.
 
At our local match we sometimes have bowling pins that need to be knocked over.

Observationally FMJs frequently icepick right they the pins. JHPs and ballistic tips knock them down with authority along with blowing big chunks of wood out.

How bowling pins behave isn’t that relevant to terminal ballistics in people but it is somewhat indicative of barrier penetration.

BSW
 
briansmithwins said:
At our local match we sometimes have bowling pins that need to be knocked over.

Observationally FMJs frequently icepick right they the pins. JHPs and ballistic tips knock them down with authority along with blowing big chunks of wood out.

How bowling pins behave isn’t that relevant to terminal ballistics in people but it is somewhat indicative of barrier penetration.

BSW
Click to expand...

Sounds like they should be effective against wooden Indians.

:D


Along with its devastating soft target performance...

M193 Ball - will punch through 1/4" hot rolled steel at 200 yards.



​

... and seems to negotiate and tumble in pine boards as well.





​

GR
 
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Hornady TAP 75gr is good stuff. Also Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 is pretty well known for chopping people down with precision and lots of times only 1 shot needed. I was reading and thought it was kind of funny hearing stories about door kickers carrying Mk18 10.3 bbl carbines stealing the Mk262 from the long gunners (snipers).
 
DustyGmt said:
Hornady TAP 75gr is good stuff. Also Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 is pretty well known for chopping people down with precision and lots of times only 1 shot needed. I was reading and thought it was kind of funny hearing stories about door kickers carrying Mk18 10.3 bbl carbines stealing the Mk262 from the long gunners (snipers).
Click to expand...

My old squad leader has been a Green Beret for about 16 years now. He told me his favorite combo was/is a Mk18 and M262. He said he had success with it out past 400 meters too.
 
C-grunt said:
My old squad leader has been a Green Beret for about 16 years now. He told me his favorite combo was/is a Mk18 and M262. He said he had success with it out past 400 meters too.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised. It apparently functions quite well below the standard velocity thresholds for 5.56, for lack of better phrasing. Sort of in step with the M855A1 in terms of performing really well under the 2,000fps mark....
 
DustyGmt said:
I'm not surprised. It apparently functions quite well below the standard velocity thresholds for 5.56, for lack of better phrasing. Sort of in step with the M855A1 in terms of performing really well under the 2,000fps mark....
Click to expand...

Plus, while the round might not fragment reliably at that range it's still going to punch a hole through your chest which is REALLY bad for your health and requires immediate medical attention. So while it might not have the quick fight stopping ability it has at closer ranges, the guy is 400 meters away and severely/mortally wounded.
 
C-grunt said:
Plus, while the round might not fragment reliably at that range it's still going to punch a hole through your chest which is REALLY bad for your health and requires immediate medical attention. So while it might not have the quick fight stopping ability it has at closer ranges, the guy is 400 meters away and severely/mortally wounded.
Click to expand...

Again, Self Defense - at 400 Meters - is a very interesting scenario to say the least.

Even 400 feet would need a pretty sharp lawyer.

400 hands (133 ft) is probably a reasonable SD range.




GR
 
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