Whaddayathink? Looks like a fake?

Fishy looking.if real wouldn't the price be much higher.

Ya think?
Proof a little knowledge is dangerous. No serial number (even S/N range) listed, he doesn't even know which model it is...but he did know it was roll engraved.

Hmmmm.

Screws look too good as well as the nipples.

Pretty sad looking aging job. Looks like a new gun that was dunked in vinegar for a while. The grips still have what looks like the Italian makers thick reddish varnish on them without so much as a dent or scuff.

Serial number 34851 out of 19600. Hmm.

That high serial number is a dead give away. I don't even remember if the 2nd gens went that high. Some of the late F series 3rd models must have or else it could be a 3rd gen with the Sam'l Colt signature filed and buffed out.

The serial number shows up in the Colt look-up system for about a dozen or more pistols, but only four 1st gen percussion models, and of course none are Dragoons, so I have no idea where he got his date from. The are no 2nd gen black powders with this number listed either.

However, I have a 2nd gen 2nd model Dragoon in the 28000 serial range and even it doesn't show up in the system. In fact, there are a lot of late 2nd gens that do not currently show up in the Colt look-up system.

The serial numbers and Colt patent stamps are too fresh, clear, and deep.

The stocks are still flush with grip frame and no noticeable wear, dents, or scars especially when compared to the metal parts

A distinct shine is still apparent on the flash guard and other areas of the frame---meaning their aging solution might have erased most of the case colors, but it didn't eat into the case hardening as much as the rest of the unhardened steel of the revolver. Look at the shot of the serial numbers from the bottom of the frame. You can see how different the metal of the frame looks next to the lower part of the barrel lug. In fact the frame still shows a bit of case color in this area.

Too much of the roll engraving still deeply imprinted. Not commensurate with the rest of the supposed "wear" on the gun.

In fact, this one of the worst faking jobs, I think I have ever seen. It's almost as bad as a bald guy thinking he's fooling people by wearing a toupee with a chin strap!

Is it even worth $400?
He's probably just trying to bring attention to his pocket .31 that's for sale.

I just emailed him about selling a defarbed fake. We will see what he says.

Fake-etty fake McFakester. Do people honestly buy these fakes at such a high price? I know the saying that "theres a sucker born every minute", but i would think that a collector/hobbyist would do their research before risking so much money (or any money)...and know how to spot a real or fake gun. Are these sellers hoping that someone will stumble across the ad and just lay down thousands without question? I just dont see someone randomly buying this gun...and it would have to be a random non collector becuase i dont see a serious informed collector/hobbyist being interested in this fraudulent poor excuse of an original gun.

Do people who buy/sell rare collectibles like genuine Colt Model 1847 revolvers do it through anyone other than a well vetted collector/auctioneer?

I'm no expert but it screamed FAKE to me at first glance. It just looks wrong. I once came close to buying a second generation Colt SA 1973 at a gun show. I wanted it but something said WRONG! The trigger guard was off somehow, it just didn't look right. I asked to pick it up and given approval it didn't feel like a Colt SAA. I thought out loud that it wasn't a Colt. The seller got irate and I asked if I could cock it. Still hoping to make a sale the seller gave me the go ahead. Dead give away. Three clicks and it was fully cocked. No C O L T. I said that pretty loud and we did not part friends.

Definitely fake, way too many red flags.

not on gunbroker you can count on that

forward observer said:

In fact, this one of the worst faking jobs, I think I have ever seen.

Click to expand...

Indeed!

The uniform color of the steel, although "damaged" was a giveaway for me as well as the pristine screws. Plus serial numbers are in the wrong font (iirc). Looks like a corrosive was applied, then removed with Evaporust. The uniform dull gray is characteristic of that solution applied to rusted steel.

I personally have done better "aging" on Pietta revolver repros for a couple fellows that wanted "antique looking" revolvers for Cowboy Action Shooting, than was done on this revolver.

LD

Somebody basically ruined what was probably a nice revolver.

I sent them an email as well. Their feedback score is good, so maybe it's unintentional. What's funny is the uniform "aging" of all the blued parts, yet some traces of case color remain. Piss poor aging job, whether it was intended to "fake" or not.

They do a better job with the factory Uberti "Old West" guns.

Minimal info is typical with fakes. Makes a buyer think he is getting a steal because he "knows more" than the seller.

I've seen a lot of fakes and originals over the years. This has to be the worst fake I have ever seen. Look at the photo of the cylinder. Not only is there no wear or drag marks but the locking cuts are still polished enough to reflect the camera light.

What a joke.
IronHand

gasmandave said:

I just emailed him about selling a defarbed fake. We will see what he says.

Click to expand...

Many online fakers will either not reply, scream innocence or move it to another venue. Some will permanently block those who question their items out of spite.

I'm not a Colt expert, but the font is different on the brass frame than on the steel parts. The 3, 4, and 5 are completely different.
Did they use a different machine to apply the serial numbers for the different metals?

That looks very fake. Serial number font is wrong and roll cylinder details too distinct. Must be a Colt authorized repro someone is trying their luck at getting rid of.

LaneP said:

That looks very fake. Serial number font is wrong and roll cylinder details too distinct. Must be a Colt authorized repro someone is trying their luck at getting rid of.

Click to expand...

Likely a Colt 3rd generation to get the Colt markings and not have to knock off a lot of Italian proof marks.

A web site listing Colts serial numbers for Dragoon’s doesn’t approach that high of a serial number, 34851.


The highest for a 3rd model Dragoon only went to 18900 in 1860.

All good points made above!

May I add one more observation of its fraudulence?

Look at the "COLT'S PATENT" on the left side of the frame in photo #8 and below:
1. The "P" is crooked in relation to the other letters.
2. Around each letter there is a halo as if each was individually stamped.
3. While Colt revolvers had lots of variation in their markings, I do not remember seeing an apostrophe on his "COLTS PATENT."



This is a documented 1st gen. 1849 pocket:



Note the smooth metal around the frame marking, the alignment of the letters and the lack of an apostrophe.
If anyone has a 1st or 2nd Gen. Colt with a "COLT ' S PATENT" instead of "COLTS PATENT," please let us know!

The seller also does not show the barrel address. Maybe it is not very well done?