Whaddayathink? Looks like a fake?

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The apostrophe in COLT'S PATENT is a hoot!
In my opinion this is an amalgamation of parts- one frame from A, one barrel from B, a hammer from C etc.

Ephraim Kibbey said:
All good points made above!

May I add one more observation of its fraudulence?

Look at the "COLT'S PATENT" on the left side of the frame in photo #8 and below:
1. The "P" is crooked in relation to the other letters.
2. Around each letter there is a halo as if each was individually stamped.
3. While Colt revolvers had lots of variation in their markings, I do not remember seeing an apostrophe on his "COLTS PATENT."

View attachment 965959

This is a documented 1st gen. 1849 pocket:

View attachment 965960

Note the smooth metal around the frame marking, the alignment of the letters and the lack of an apostrophe.
If anyone has a 1st or 2nd Gen. Colt with a "COLT ' S PATENT" instead of "COLTS PATENT," please let us know!

The seller also does not show the barrel address. Maybe it is not very well done?
Click to expand...
 
Ephraim Kibbey said:
All good points made above!

May I add one more observation of its fraudulence?

Look at the "COLT'S PATENT" on the left side of the frame in photo #8 and below:
1. The "P" is crooked in relation to the other letters.
2. Around each letter there is a halo as if each was individually stamped.
3. While Colt revolvers had lots of variation in their markings, I do not remember seeing an apostrophe on his "COLTS PATENT."

View attachment 965959

This is a documented 1st gen. 1849 pocket:

View attachment 965960

Note the smooth metal around the frame marking, the alignment of the letters and the lack of an apostrophe.
If anyone has a 1st or 2nd Gen. Colt with a "COLT ' S PATENT" instead of "COLTS PATENT," please let us know!

The seller also does not show the barrel address. Maybe it is not very well done?
Click to expand...

Nail in the coffin, good find. It looks like some sort of chemical solution was used to artificially age it (I'm sure there are many in use). It just reeks of "this doesn't look right".
 
Ephraim Kibbey said:
All good points made above!

May I add one more observation of its fraudulence?

Look at the "COLT'S PATENT" on the left side of the frame in photo #8 and below:
1. The "P" is crooked in relation to the other letters.
2. Around each letter there is a halo as if each was individually stamped.
3. While Colt revolvers had lots of variation in their markings, I do not remember seeing an apostrophe on his "COLTS PATENT."

View attachment 965959

This is a documented 1st gen. 1849 pocket:

View attachment 965960

Note the smooth metal around the frame marking, the alignment of the letters and the lack of an apostrophe.
If anyone has a 1st or 2nd Gen. Colt with a "COLT ' S PATENT" instead of "COLTS PATENT," please let us know!

The seller also does not show the barrel address. Maybe it is not very well done?
Click to expand...

I have a colt signature series 1860 That is marked COLT'S PATENT though it is not stamped nearly as deep as the one on GB.

SC45-70
 
Here is a Colt Signature Series 3rd Dragoon:

Note the bolt stop notch is wider away from the lead while the Authentic Blackpowder Series 3rd Model Dragoon above has notches that are wider at the lead.
rd-model-Dragoon-in-44-cal-six-shot-black-powder-percussion-li_101341286_121517_E473BB68E9F1F7D6.jpg

Here is an original Colt 3rd Model Dragoon with its rectangular notches as opposed to trapezoidal ones:

Colt%203rd%20Mdl%20Dragoon%203669%20Center%20L1.jpg

In Photo #10 of the GB revolver and below note the trapezoidal notches:

pix841782441.jpg
 
Good catch on the apostrophe in the Colts Patent stamp.

I only have two Signature series pistols--a Walker and an 1849 pocket. However, both have the apostrophe in the "Colt's Patent" stamp. I had never noticed this before.

While I haven't looked at all of my 2nd gens, none that I checked had it.

Then with a little searching, I found a picture of a Signature series 3rd model Dragoon online that had a fairly high resolution which I could enlarge it enough to see that it also had an apostrophe. Thus we have to assume that many of the 3rd gens have the apostrophe.

This would tend to lend credence to my original assumption that the serial number was too high for a 2nd gen series but that the faked gun could have possibly come from the signature series. Of course, the seller doesn't show the back strap but I would assume the Colt signature has been removed either by filing and buffing it out or possibly replacing the backstrap altogether with an Italian part that happened to fit.

Cheers

P.S. I have no explanation for the crooked P, It could just be a roll stamping error or from an old worn stamp that needed replacement. Either way, I wouldn't put too much importance in it--especially if it's actually was a 3rd gen. All of the 2nd and 3rd gens had minor differences from originals including fonts and minor dimensions. They did this on purpose to help prevent them from being faked just like this example
 
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There was a guy who used to fake Colt Sheriff models as well as other's and sell them as originals. The guy was a genius who had retired from IBM back in the day. He would take an 1873 and cut the barrel down and even make the twist right. He had Colt letterhead which he probably duplicated and would give buyers a letter of authenticty with each gun. He forged Colt's historian signature too. He was so good that one of his buyers sent the gun to Colt and they confirmed that they had made it and it was genuine. One thing he did so he would know it was his fake is he made the front sight slightly shorter which had to be measured as it was so close. Buyer beware.
 
I was under the impression that machining marks inside of the revolvers was matched
to originals. Since off shore manufacture's will use carbide tooling and that will leave
different markings. Haven't some makers now leave markings inside the gun where
they can nor be removed.
 
I see the listing is still up and unchanged. Wonder how many messages they received about it being a fake?
 
Not enough.

Anecdote Alert
A store here had one that I concluded was real. If it were, it sold cheap. If it weren't it was a heckofalot better fake than this one.

They had a modern gun for about half its going price. I already have one but I should have bought it to profit on.

The guy who prices their used guns is very erratic. Most of their used gun rack is overpriced, and that not counting the broken guns priced higher than they would be worth if sound.
 
Gun Broker has 15 "original" Colt Dragoons listed and 4 "original" Walkers. Several of them seem to have military markings. Either there are lots of big time collectors in need of money or the scammers think that there are a lot of gullible suckers out here with stimulus money burning a hole in their pockets!!! Search "Dragoon" and "Walker" and see if you find any you think are legit. ENJOY!
 
Brutuskend said:
Shouldn't it have a square back trigger guard as well?
Click to expand...

No, not if it's supposed to be a 3rd model Dragoon.
The round trigger guard is correct then.
At least it might not be 100% wrong in every way as much as it's trying.

1851 that they claim puts it at when the 3rd model Dragoons started being produced.
 
Brutuskend said:
Shouldn't it have a square back trigger guard as well?
Click to expand...

The seller mislabeled it as an "1847 Dragoon" made in 1851. You are correct that an 1847 Dragoon would have had a square back guard but this resembles a Third Model as Malachi Leviticus Blue points out. The seller may not deal with BP revolvers much!
 
Young's engraving is beautiful! Thanks for the heads up on this one. A teacher who taught elementary with my wife at Cincinnati Public Schools is a Millikin. I'll have to ask her if she is related!

My mistake - her name was Milligan!
 
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Brutuskend said:
index.php
Click to expand...
I just wet my pants! :eek:
 
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