11 or 13 rounds .380 = is that a game changer ?

Not LAPD.

Just two patrolmen in a So Cal city reacting to a carload of hoods shooting up the house they were standing in front of. (Not the sharpest crooks, by any means .) The guys were lucky they didn’t get hit.

Stay safe.

I had just purchased a Bersa .380 prior to the release of the new LCP model, my LCPII about 4-5 months ago and had paid for a 1911 just before it was announced. When the budget allows it, I might wind up selling my current model and get one if a Gripsense laser is available for it.

I understand how the extra capacity is a game changer - it's one less reload. Two ten shot or more magazines = 20, it takes three 6 shot to get to 18. Not being our of ammo and swapping it out one less time is a tactical advantage.

Having carried a .380 more often than a 9, however, I decided to move up and bought a SIG P365 and retired the little shooter. Capacity and more power are a two fold gamechanger.

The new Ruger LCP Max is pretty, but it's still a 380.
I think 9mm is minimum. If one is concerned about recoil, might consider a 22; negligible recoil, lots of mag capacity.... and shot placement becomes absolutely critical.

Kleanbore writes:

If anyone imagines being able to reload a pistol while bring rushed by violent criminal actors, their impressions of likely reality differs from mine.

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Hence the discussion (as it started, at least) on a gun that allows for more rounds fired before needing that reload, but is barely bigger than the "previous best thing" in its class.

Game changer?
If... I can get five good hits at five yards in one second, then to me the LCP Max will be a game changer.
I'm just a little slower than that with my first gen LCP. Will the Max with a slightly bigger grip, better trigger vastly better sights make the difference? I'll have to get one and try it out.
You can see that if I shoot that fast seven in the gun isn't going to last long and the extra capacity will be a comfort if not a necessity.

CapnMac said:

To our credit here, no one has brought up 9x18--if most likely as no one is making micro pocket pistols (much in that caliber.

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They make a 9x18 barrel for the Glock 42.

https://www.lonewolfdist.com/PRODUCT/919996/aw-429x18n/

Reviews are mixed.

Well .. I ran out on my lunch break , drove 30mins to a Bass Pro .. and purchased one .. after calling and finding out they only had three left …
To me , the LCP II was already in my sights , and when the MAX was announced, I was all over it ..
I spent my gun money I had saved for a new
“Mini Wonder 9” of some sort …
Still waiting for my two 12 round mags to come in ,
Just a great little pistol.. light , small , great sights and the 380 ACP is a acceptable SD round ..Im sure others feel that way …

twarr1 said:

The new Ruger LCP Max is pretty, but it's still a 380.
I think 9mm is minimum. If one is concerned about recoil, might consider a 22; negligible recoil, lots of mag capacity.... and shot placement becomes absolutely critical.

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Seems like most pocket sized .22 pistols hold 10+1 rounds or less.

Why go straight from 9mm to .22LR if you can get 10+1 rounds of .380 in a LCP Max?

LeftyRed said:

I wish there was a study showing if larger pistol calibers really do stop thugs better than these small/weak calibers that only those that squat to pee use.

https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/when-does-a-380-beat-a-9mm/

https://sofrep.com/gear/the-best-handgun-caliber-a-real-world-study/

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

only if someone studied these things……..

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Only that squat and pee use .. I say you think everyone should drive a 3/4 ton diesel truck

Do you only own one handgun?
I swear they’re always that one that always writes something that shows their ignorance or arrogance

To those who feel the 9mm Luger is the
Dragon Slayer and capacity doesn’t matter
Heres your pistol

chicharrones said:

Why go straight from 9mm to .22LR if you can get 10+1 rounds of .380 in a LCP Max?

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Just saying the loss of performance going from 9mm to 380 isn't worth whatever is gained in reduced recoil, shot followup, etc. Might as well go down to 22.
9mm has enough energy to give good terminal performance with defense ammo. 380 and 22 are like defending oneself with an icepick - only effective if used with great accuracy.

Buckeye63 said:

Only that squat and pee use .. I say you think everyone should drive a 3/4 ton diesel truck

Do you only own one handgun?
I swear they’re always that one that always writes something that shows their ignorance or arrogance

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I’m getting the feeling that you didn’t read the studies in the links I provided, nor have seen ANY reply to any pocket pistol thread, nor my love for 380s and 32s.

I posted that because some feel like they have to go and piss on a thread that they can just walk away from. I don’t hold to “9mm is small and barely minimal” thinking, for civilian conceal carry.

So it’s your arrogance to presume I’m saying such. Mostly from your ignorance of not looking at the studies I posted.

LeftyRed said:

I’m getting the feeling that you didn’t read the studies in the links I provided, nor have seen ANY reply to any pocket pistol thread, nor my love for 380s and 32s.

I posted that because some feel like they have to go and piss on a thread that they can just walk away from. I don’t hold to “9mm is small and barely minimal” thinking, for civilian conceal carry.

So it’s your arrogance to presume I’m saying such. Mostly from your ignorance of not looking at the studies I posted.

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This study you linked:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Has this chart:

I doubt that 32 acp is superior to 9mm/357/40/45 in incapacitation potential.

That said, same link shows it takes two hits on average to stop (incapacitate) an attacker; can't shoot partial bullet, 1.76 = 2.
Police average about 50% hit ratio with "service" size pistols and we shall generously assume that % of hits for a civilian with a pocket gun.
Is the possibility of two attackers realistic? Yes, it is.
Two attackers requiring an average of 2 hits each to stop and our average 50% police hit ratio equates to 8 rounds potentially needed.
Less than 8 rounds may be insufficient to stop a realistic two attackers, based on data.
38 snub and no reload is coming up short.
7 rounds in a LCP 380 and no spare mag is also coming up short.
At least the 11 round LCP Max meets our 8 round minimum.

CDW4ME said:

This study you linked:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Has this chart:
View attachment 1014835
I doubt that 32 acp is superior to 9mm/357/40/45 in incapacitation potential.

That said, same link shows it takes two hits on average to stop (incapacitate) an attacker; can't shoot partial bullet, 1.76 = 2.
Police average about 50% hit ratio with "service" size pistols and we shall generously assume that % of hits for a civilian with a pocket gun.
Is the possibility of two attackers realistic? Yes, it is.
Two attackers requiring an average of 2 hits each to stop and our average 50% police hit ratio equates to 8 rounds potentially needed.
Less than 8 rounds may be insufficient to stop a realistic two attackers, based on data.
38 snub and no reload is coming up short.
7 rounds in a LCP 380 and no spare mag is also coming up short.
At least the 11 round LCP Max meets our 8 round minimum.

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this assumption of more than two attackers ACTUALLY STICKING AROUND is one of thr biggest BS story you guys push. Believe what the internet tactical gurus all you want, but don’t it’s BS. Show me anywhere a civilian was approached by two or more thugs that didn’t run from the time of shooting or the weapon was produced. I can not find any proof that supports your statements.

You can doubt this and that, but the study show, majority of pistol calibers are equal at stopping the thugs, and that is what we want the, to do! You can stick to your totems and assumptions, but don’t try to pass then off as facts.

Not on par with the “convenient threat” BS you was saying on DC, but close.

Lefty

twarr1 said:

Just saying the loss of performance going from 9mm to 380 isn't worth whatever is gained in reduced recoil, shot followup, etc. Might as well go down to 22.
9mm has enough energy to give good terminal performance with defense ammo. 380 and 22 are like defending oneself with an icepick - only effective if used with great accuracy.

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So, the 9x19 is your pocket gun cartridge floor, but the 9x17 isn't.

Considering the flood of .380 pocket guns over the last 13+ years, .380 ACP sure has gotten a strong foothold into the concealed carry market. For those that have picked a .380 as their pocket gun option, it's nice to have something with more capacity than a 6+1 pistol added to the vast array of choices.

Since the SA Hellcat has been brought up in comparison to the LCP Max, the Hellcat is just long enough that it becomes a belt gun instead of a pocket gun for me. And there's nothing wrong with that. It just so happens to be that my belt guns are 9x19 and above in "power", but I'm rarely able to carry a belt gun due to my work clothes.

I know my Remington RM380 is right at the threshold of being a pocket gun that I can actually draw from my pockets. Of course, Rohrbaugh made the R9 many years ago, but Remington didn't. Would I have picked a RM9 instead of a RM380 if it had been available? Probably, since I wasn't invested in .380 ACP at the time.

Surprisingly, the RM380 opened my eyes to how controllable a little 1" wide pocket gun that shoots 0.355" diameter bullets could be. My 5-shot .38 Special* revolver sure was harder to shoot well in comparison when using full strength defense ammo in either gun. The same can be said for my experience firing the first generation LCPs.

*0.357" diameter

Actual civilian shooting events by Claude Werner. Google is your friend. Not some member’s post, but actual studies.

Where are some actually police hit ratios listed? Cause some LEOs I have worked with would like to see them please.

Lefty

I am not sure what “game” is being changed. I consider that the .380 is an adequate hole-puncher, when one’s opponents are standing relatively face-to-face, with no intervening armor or cover. Some defensive situations are not face-to-face, and some opponents have some amount of cover or armor.

Unless this newer, fatter Elsie Pea has a nicely-hand-filling grip, I am unlikely to consier it to be an adequate street/field weapon. My usual minimum is a Ruger SP101, because the factory grip reaches all the way to the :heel bone” area of my hand, providing stability, which I have long consdidered important for defensive shooting performance. Plus, recently, handguns that have short grips have started vexing my more-arthritic right hand. I used to carry larger weapons, because, as an LEO, I reckoned that I had a higher threat profile, and had a duty to intervene, 24/7. Now retired, I find little guns to be annoying, if not painful, so, still like longer, hand-filling grips.

See KB, thugs are cowards. Worked with then for over. 30 years. They only approach when they think the target is easy. Cause they are lazy as well. They do not want to fight, nor get hurt, cause that means medical care. And gunshot wounds alert the police. Way easier to run away and wait for another victim engrossed on their phone.

For a better understanding of violence and thugs thinking, almost any book by Miller or MacYoung is a good place to start. They were mandatory reading for SERT and TACT team members I was on.

Lefty

My Glock 20 , loaded with Underwood 200gr XTP
Is idea carry gun …
Yep… but I carried my LCP MAX this past weekend