How to get killed...

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is why every firearm on my property is fully loaded. Some are in a traditional glass-fronted wooden cabinet but others are secreted around the house or on an open gun rack on the wall.
Before anybody chastises me about my storage options, remember this - NO wife, NO kids, almost no visitors - and I'm usually at home (I'm retired!). If I'm outside doing yardwork, the door is locked, as it is when I go for groceries.
 
I do not load every firearm in the residence. There are two loaded handguns and one shotgun. The other firearms are unloaded secured in a safe. Our residence is secure that is as much detail of measures as I'll state on a forum.
We have gone to certain lengths to have more secure entrance doors secured and windows also. We have our procedures such has being armed outside of the residence while on the property. If we leave our residence and property we go armed. Its simply SOP. There are things one may do to make ones residence less inviting.
 
JTHunter said:
This is why every firearm on my property is fully loaded. Some are in a traditional glass-fronted wooden cabinet but others are secreted around the house or on an open gun rack on the wall.
Before anybody chastises me about my storage options, remember this - NO wife, NO kids, almost no visitors - and I'm usually at home (I'm retired!). If I'm outside doing yardwork, the door is locked, as it is when I go for groceries.
Click to expand...
How might any of that have changed the outcome here?
 
In cases like this, and when possible, one should remain concealed behind cover and call the police. That's the best plan when possible. But let's bear in mind that for many people, there are other factors that may render that impossible. Mrs. McGee and I have a daughter. Her room is at the far end of the hall. Were we to have a break-in in the night, you'd better believe I'd go to the far end of the hallway to protect her. If her room were on the far end of the house, guess where I'd be headed. It might get me killed, but I'll take that risk. I'll take it every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 
film495 said:
The title of the thread is how to get killed. This implies his death was his fault, and not the fault of the two murderous cirminals who broke into his home and murdered him. I get the discussion on self defense tactics, has value, just think blaming a murder victim for his own death seems a bit sick in the head to me.
Click to expand...

This is merely a lessons-learned thread. As a police officer I have learned countless lessons from law enforcement shootings where the officer(s) made mistakes. Some of the officers I knew personally and though painful the stories and scenarios have value. The homeowner made mistakes that we can all learn from.
 
All defensive use guns are chambered. Handguns are holstered (Striker - no safeties) and my shotgun and rifle are chambered with safeties on in the safe. That is the area my wife would go and call 911. I would retrieve my handgun from it's safe by the bed and I would not go clearing my house, even if I feel like I have an advantage in the dark.
 
Just a comment, that good FOF is scripted carefully for a lesson. It is not paintball. After a run, there is a serious after action review. It's a little more than just mock combat. For civilians, the goal is to survive as compared to 'take out' the bad people. If you 'win' by running away - that's just fine.

Military, police and civilian FOF may have different goals.
 
Howland937 said:
Perhaps something to consider is that just because they heard one noise from one area, doesn't mean there's only one threat.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!

GEM said:
For civilians, the goal is to survive as compared to 'take out' the bad people. If you 'win' by running away - that's just fine.
Click to expand...
Similarly, if you avoid contact in a home burglary and the guy(s) leave, you win.
 
GEM said:
Chamber empty and self-clearing has quite a following on THR.
Click to expand...

I keep waiting for one to show up in the thread.
giphy.gif

:evil:
 
RIP.

I too think that the way to play it is to wait with your loved ones in a room (this includes my dogs if I can corral them) with a proper reliable tool that you are well practiced in its use, call the police and wait to see if the criminals push into the safe room.

TBS I can see situations where the homeowner may feel it's necessary to leave the safe room eg. you have a loved one in another part of the house who you need to get to.

.
 
GEM writes:

For civilians, the goal is to survive as compared to 'take out' the bad people. If you 'win' by running away - that's just fine.
Click to expand...

This is a point all too often lost in the mindset of civilians when they think of self-defense. Successful self-extraction is a win in my view.

It's also lost on quite a few FOF instructors, too. In an overwhelming majority of defensive-shooting incidents, the perpetrators of the crime who are still able to flee do so. It would be funny to see a FOF instructor portraying a bad actor do so. :D
 
Last edited:
run forrest, run! the vietnam war ambush scene where forrest gets his medal of honor is a great example of how to deal with a life-or-death situation. run away, stop, evaluate, decide on a plan (save bubba) and execute the plan.

murf
 
In the quality FOF, I did - we had the good guys and bad guys flee if it worked for them.

Just a funny one. We were doing a Stop and Rob. When it went down, a guy by the door ran out. However, he stopped outside to watch. The crook ran out and said: Oh, Hello. Then he shot the guy.

When I was in one, I made the door and headed for the horizon.

In another, in the shoot house that I was watching, we heard a shot and then the door flew open and a herd of big strong men thundered out. The instructor - said: Well, that was a major hauling of tushy (haha).
 
One of the tactics we taught our officers when encountering an ambush while driving
( sudden stop by vehicle in front - then a quick assault type ambush, trying to catch you still in your car…). Was simply to remain in the vehicle and use it to escape and evade incoming fire by quickly retreating in reverse at high speed at the slightest hint of an ambush … or by stopping short if you even suspected you were being set up. Overcoming that tremendous urge to close and win saves lives in police work (allowing your target to flee while waiting for the odds to shift back in your favor) as help arrives works well for armed citizens as well.
 
I think these threads should be approached with a great deal of care as well as reverence for the deceased. How would this man’s loved ones feel if they stumbled across this thread? Speaking nonchalantly about these situations feels disrespectful to me. The thread title certainly seems harsh and this man’s children, widow, siblings, parents would likely be hurt by it. Feel free to disagree, but if I were in their shoes that’s how I would feel. This was a living breathing human being, with all of the hopes, dreams, and aspirations that entails. People loved him and he loved them. Respect is all I am asking for. It’s one thing to learn from the mistakes of another, but to belittle them in the process should be avoided at all costs. Think carefully about how you word things. This was a human being.
 
From the OP:

"I'm not trying to insult the homeowner--I just wish things had worked out differently."

From another post I made on this thread:

"When good people pay in blood and lives to provide useful information, we do them and ourselves a huge disservice if we ignore the lessons learned and simply feel badly about the outcome."
This was a human being.
Click to expand...
I'm well aware of that as is everyone who has read and/or posted on this thread--that's what makes the incident a tragedy and that's why hopefully it resonates enough that others may stop, read and pay attention perhaps actually learn from what went wrong.

I've tried to make it clear that the point isn't to posthumously berate him for his poor decisions--he was, as I said, apparently a good person. The point is to learn from them so that what happened to him is less likely to happen to anyone else.

It's one thing when this happens to someone who hasn't really had the opportunity to think about tactics and see what works and what doesn't based on the actions of others. It's another thing when it happens to someone who has had every opportunity to make good decisions but has decided to ignore good advice. The OP isn't berating the man who died, it is berating the people who will read the story of how a man's life ended and ignore the lessons. Those who will, in effect, follow the instructions provided on how to get killed.

The story is really incidental, it's just the mechanism, an anecdote that draws and holds attention and helps us realize that the lessons are more than just theoretical--they can have real-world consequences.
 
We have the luxury of trying to learn better tactics from mistakes that got someone killed.... I can see how the family might feel - but they'd feel differently had that individual been taught basic tactics that might have prevented the tragedy...

In simple terms... the confrontation/ambush that's avoided is much, much better than the one you have to fight your way out of....

In my view your tactics are much more important than whatever you're armed with at the moment...
 
JohnKSa said:
From the OP:

"I'm not trying to insult the homeowner--I just wish things had worked out differently."

From another post I made on this thread:

"When good people pay in blood and lives to provide useful information, we do them and ourselves a huge disservice if we ignore the lessons learned and simply feel badly about the outcome."I'm well aware of that as is everyone who has read and/or posted on this thread--that's what makes the incident a tragedy and that's why hopefully it resonates enough that others may stop, read and pay attention perhaps actually learn from what went wrong.

I've tried to make it clear that the point isn't to posthumously berate him for his poor decisions--he was, as I said, apparently a good person. The point is to learn from them so that what happened to him is less likely to happen to anyone else.

It's one thing when this happens to someone who hasn't really had the opportunity to think about tactics and see what works and what doesn't based on the actions of others. It's another thing when it happens to someone who has had every opportunity to make good decisions but has decided to ignore good advice. The OP isn't berating the man who died, it is berating the people who will read the story of how a man's life ended and ignore the lessons. Those who will, in effect, follow the instructions provided on how to get killed.

The story is really incidental, it's just the mechanism, an anecdote that draws and holds attention and helps us realize that the lessons are more than just theoretical--they can have real-world consequences.
Click to expand...

John, I don’t mean to sound as if I am criticizing you. I know you to be a very good poster with very valuable information to share. In fact you have shared information that has been valuable to me in threads where I’ve posted asking questions, so I don’t want this to sound confrontational. However, you insinuated that he viewed a firearm as magical, and then appeared to mock his lack of training. The fact that you felt the need to pointedly say you weren’t intending to insult him in your original post is perhaps evidence that you knew that you were. I believe that all of the value of your original post could’ve been presented in a more reverent way. There are people out there to this day who are grieving his untimely death. Based on your posting history I truly believe that you would feel terrible if they were to read that original post and to have their grief intensified as a result. Not only is their loved one dead, but he has been mocked and derided as well.

When we do these analyses of shootings gone wrong I would really just ask that the community here represents the deceased in the most respectful and honorable fashion.

I hope you have a good day and that you do not take any of my statements to be a personal attack on you or your character. I shall remove myself from this conversation with my apologies for going off topic.
 
SteadyD said:
However, you insinuated that he viewed a firearm as magical,....
Click to expand...
No one has tried to devine what the decedent may have thought. The caution against treating a firearm as a magical protective tool is good advice. as "magical"

SteadyD said:
and then appeared to mock his lack of training.
Click to expand...
I saw no mocking--just a reference to the clear evidence of the fact.

SteadyD said:
The fact that you felt the need to pointedly say you weren’t intending to insult him in your original post is perhaps evidence that you knew that you were.
Click to expand...
I do not see it that way at all,

SteadyD said:
Not only is their loved one dead, but he has been mocked and derided as well.
Click to expand...
Pointing out how a person's actions led to an unfortunate result does not constitute mocking or derision in any way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
  • Locked
(CA) Homeowner kills intruder in gun battle 01-08-04
Replies
4
Views
633
pax
P
J
  • Locked
Peeping Toms?
Replies
13
Views
1K
Sgt Stevo
S
S
  • Locked
Grand Prairie man killed by homeowner after apparent burglary
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
Double Naught Spy
Double Naught Spy
4
  • Locked
Police: Homeowner Kills Alleged Intruder
Replies
16
Views
1K
45R
4
E
  • Locked
The wages of stupid: homeowner shot in Greenville, SC
2
Replies
28
Views
3K
herrwalther
H
Back
Top