Grand Prairie man killed by homeowner after apparent burglary

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Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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All I have to say is....

GOAL!

Regards,
Rabbit.


Grand Prairie man killed by homeowner after apparent burglary
01:45 PM CDT on Friday, July 30, 2004

From Staff Reports


Dallas police were investigating the death of a Grand Prairie man they say was shot and killed by a homeowner after he attempted to burglarize a residence in Southwest Dallas.

Police responded to a burglary in progress call about 6:15 a.m. Friday in the 7300 block of Bluestem Road.

When police arrived, a 32-year-old man was found dead from a single gunshot wound to the chest.

Officials said the homeowner awakened after hearing someone kicking on the front door of the residence. Armed with a gun, the homeowner opened the door and saw a man on the home's front porch.

The homeowner and the Grand Prairie man have not been identified.


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Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/073004dnmetburglary.2afe4a38.html
 
ROFL - watch it be the wifes boyfriend or something =(

heh

Altho, since i only have the article to go by.... the guy was on the porch? The guy woke up to the man kicking on the door, got his gun - went to the noise - and the guy was on the porch - he opened the door and shot him?

odd

Not sure on the legalities of this. The guy was on his land true, but wasn't in the house. remember our CHL instructor basically saying you are opening yourself up if you go outside the home to "track the guy down" or something. Warn first - if the guy runs away etc etc... then your life isn't in danger and what not... Keep gun trained on door - yell that yer callin the cops etc etc... don't recall the advice to open the door and shoot. :)

J/Tharg!
 
A woman shot a guy THROUGH the front door some years back in Colorado Springs. I think he had been stalking her for some time. I guess she figured shoot before the door was completly busted down.

She was cleared of any wrong-doing.
 
In Texas the person does not have to be in your house at night, for it to be a justified shot. In TX you get a lot more leeway at night.
 
Tharg, just where in the story does it say the homeowner went outside his home and tracked down the guy?

You are right, based on what is described, it is an odd shooting. Was the guy on the front porch really kickiing the door as if to break in, or maybe he was beating on the door because he had an emergency and required immediate help? Maybe it was just some drug deal gone bad? These sorts of stories that are overly simplified and lacking of information rarely turn out to be very clear cut. I would bet there was a lot more going on than what was described.

I wasn't sure if this would count as being night or not, but checked and sunrise is at 6:40 here in Dallas, so this did occur at night.
 
Here's my take

1. Kicking another person's front door is never a good idea. Doing it at 6AM is worse.

2. HAVING kicked a person's front door is not grounds for the property owner to use deadly force, (no, not even in TX ;) ). If the kicker failed to desist, was continuing to kick, etc, that's a slightly different situation.

3. The police did not arrest the shooter. If they thought he heard a ruckus, opened the door and popped the first person he saw, he'd be their guest right now. There's definitely more to this story than made it into the article.

4. Kicking another person's front door in the early morning hours is very odd behavior. This is a time of day that people are very likely to be home. Also, it seems odd for the "shootee" to try to break in through the front when he could almost certainly go around back and have a bit more privacy for his soccer practice. Again, something's missing from the recipe here.
 
Also, we don't know what kind of kicking this was. I'm not joking. I mean, the article doesn't state whether the guy was just being a PITA, or whether he was doing the full-on, take-two-steps-back, break-the-door-frame, no-knock-warrant, too-many-hyphens kick. I mean, you make that sort of thunderous racket against my door, I can only assume you mean me harm of some form or another. They also don't state whether the door was damaged, or anything. I mean the guy still could have whipped the door open had it been partially broken in, or something like that... *ramble*

~Slam_Fire
 
Let me give you a quick run down:

This took place in "The Woods." No, not the woods, it's the name of a housing area. "The Woods" is a housing area that is kind of on the wrong side of the proverbial tracks. The houses on this street are valued between $65K-$85K, and considering that they go to Duncanville schools, the values are abysmal. Most housing in the Duncanville school system is twice what is found in "The Woods." I don't claim to know what went on in this particular case, but the area it happened in isn't likely to get too much investigation.

It could be an enclosed porch also.
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No, it's not.

thats Texas...you can shoot a guy stealing your lawnmower in the yard there even.
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Yes, and No. Although you'll find that Texans wish that was the case, in reality, you were actually shooting to protect yourself when you went out to confront the person stealing your lawnmower.
 
Kharma

Rehabilitation through reincarnation.



Would you like to buy a flower?;)
 
If they thought he heard a ruckus, opened the door and popped the first person he saw,
Click to expand...

/me gets an idea for dealing with the next huge party across the street... ;)

seems to me that "there's someone trying to kick down my door" is a good time to back up to the end of the hallway, get in a good stance, take aim, and start screaming for them to stop while your spouse calls the cops... not so much a good time to open the door yourself.
 
Latest update, Saturday.

I heard yesterday on the news that the police invited the shooter and his wife to come to the station to discuss it. They were not charged, and left after making statements.

I dunno, but to me, it still sounds like an ok shoot. Either he was too impaired to realize he was at the wrong house and was trying to force his way in, or he was up to something of malicious intent.
TechBrute is quite correct, it's not the most savory part of town. Nonetheless, by the way the law tends to be interpreted around this area, somebody who is trying to kick your door in when the sun's not out is pretty much in the wrong and deserves what they get, and whoever gives it to him is *usually* going to be well within their rights to defend themselves.


Regards,
Rabbit.

This is from WFAA, one of the local stations:


http://www.wfaa.com/cgi-bin/bi/gold_print.cgi


Police investigate Grand Prairie shooting death
04:59 PM CDT on Friday, July 30, 2004

From Staff Reports


Dallas police are investigating the death of a Grand Prairie man who was shot and killed by a homeowner who said the man attempted to burglarize his Southwest Dallas residence.

Police responded to a burglary in progress call around 6:15 a.m. Friday in the 7300 block of Bluestem Road.

When police arrived, Brandon Washington, 32, was found dead from a single gunshot wound to the chest.

Officials said someone kicking on the front door of the residence had awakened homeowner Karl Julius, 57.

Armed with a gun, Julius opened the door and saw a man on his front porch, police said.

"We're still investigating the circumstances surrounding the shooting," said Sgt. Ken Sprecher of the Police Department's homicide unit. "We're not sure (Washington's) intent was burglary."

Sprecher said Washington apparently had been visiting a friend across the street during the night and early morning.

Police said it does not appear Julius and Washington knew each other.

Washington may have been drinking heavily, but police were awaiting toxicology results, Sprecher said.

Police said Julius was not arrested or charged in the incident.

"He has been cooperating with us during the investigation," Sprecher said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/073004dnmetburglary.2afe4a38.html
 
you were actually shooting to protect yourself when you went out to confront the person stealing your lawnmower
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If we put moral considerations aside, deal purely with the letter of the law, then the above quote is false.

TX law DOES allow for the use of deadly force to protect property under certain circumstances and when it is felt that there is no reasonable alternative to prevent property loss or damage.

From a practical standpoint, given the situation in the civil courts, I would say that if you use deadly force to protect property, there had better be some extenuating circumstances that would make clear sense to a jury or judge. i.e. the property had better be very valuable, unique, or there should be some obvious value to the general public in preventing it's theft or damage. My guess is that shooting someone over a lawnmower or some similarly valued item--even if the letter of the law didn't allow criminal prosecution--would be a loser in the civil courts.

With regard to the topic of this thread--the possible chemical impairment of the "shootee" goes a long way to helping things make sense.
 
Tharg...Texas rules apply here. A one shot stop...
Click to expand...

Whats "texas" about that? Once again - we don't know if the guy pounding on the door was drunk or what was going on. We do know i guess that the cops haven't arrested the shooter - so must on some level believe it to be a good shoot.

That still isn't kosher in my book tho - if you aren't THREATENED and your life isn't IN DANGER you shouldn't go around shooting people cause they are pounding on your front door. Call the cops, yell at the guy/gal whatever, but if your life is not in danger... if the door isn't comming off its hinges... you aren't in danger - period.

A woman shot a guy THROUGH the front door some years back in Colorado Springs. I think he had been stalking her for some time. I guess she figured shoot before the door was completly busted down.
Click to expand...
Obviously she knew who this person was - and had already made it clear she was being stalked - this could be seen (easily in my mind) as a protection scenario.

In Texas the person does not have to be in your house at night, for it to be a justified shot. In TX you get a lot more leeway at night.
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So far as i know - even your land in texas is "legal" - point being they will get you on the civil side since if the guy is running - then he's not a threat, and deadly force was not necessary.

Tharg, just where in the story does it say the homeowner went outside his home and tracked down the guy?
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It doesn't - it says he opened a perfectly closed door and shot. I've had people over at my house before. Completely drunk people who done ran thier car into the ditch outside our property, asking for help. He even got a bit beligerent and i went and unlocked my taurus (kept it locked because of kids around). Didn't point it at him... didn't shoot him... Didn't show it to him... DID call the cops - did keep said gun handy, some buddies of his came and towed him out. we didn't have a chain long enough then to help out even tho we WERE trying when he started getting beligerent.

thats Texas...you can shoot a guy stealing your lawnmower in the yard there even.
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By law prolly - by civil law - you better hope no ambulance chaser decides he likes the case. (and personally if yer asking me - if someone was on my land that didn't belong there - that i didn't know and was attempting to steal my property - they deserve every grain of lead comming thier way... price of doing business that way. Too many people don't agree w/ me - that its too harsh... i'm of the mind that i didn't force the guy to go into a life of crime because he didn't want to work or whatever reason he/she had.)

seems to me that "there's someone trying to kick down my door" is a good time to back up to the end of the hallway, get in a good stance, take aim, and start screaming for them to stop while your spouse calls the cops... not so much a good time to open the door yourself.
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That is most of my point....

Either way - we don't have the whole story - i'd understand if the cops found a busted down door and a shot busted-down-dooree... the story of whipin open the door and blasting tho doesn't make sense to me - oh and its the kind of thing likely to end up w/ anti's going SEE SEE - they don't do this that or the other and that man wasn't REALLY in danger but he shot someone. I get reminded of some of the flashier stories where an innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time w/o intent to do wrong was shot... they were from a long time ago - can't remember specifics... but it has happened - just blowing away people on yer porch cause they are there isn't cool.

J/Tharg!
 
TX law DOES allow for the use of deadly force to protect property under certain circumstances and when it is felt that there is no reasonable alternative to prevent property loss or damage.
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Texas has a provision in the deadly force self-defense statute (9.32) that allows a person who is the victim of certain specific named felonies that endanger the person, i.e., aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery, to use deadly force to prevent the felon's imminent commission of the offense. These are all situations where there is a reasonable belief of impending death or "serious bodily injury." Preventing property loss, or burglary, technically does not permit deadly force.

This is the way it actually plays out, though. Guy breaks into your shed to steal your lawnmower. So far, no deadly force is permitted via TPC. At this point, you could not smack him in the melon with a 168gr .308 legally. However, now you would go confront him since you don't want your lawn mower stolen. In the interest of self preservation, you bring your favorite gun. As soon as there is a reasonable belief of impending death or "serious bodily injury," you can cap him. Since you are now 6 feet from someone committing a criminal act, you can easily make the case that he had the ability to inflict injury or death on you.

So basically, you can't shoot someone for stealing your lawnmower, but you can shoot them when you confront them for stealing your lawnmower because you were in danger of injury or death. That's how it gets translated into "you can shoot someone for stealing your lawn mower."
 
TechBrute, how conveniently you left out 9.42, Deadly Force Used to Protect Property....as it pertains to night events.

You are dead wrong in stating that it is for self defense only.
 
TechBrute, how conveniently you left out 9.42, Deadly Force Used to Protect Property....as it pertains to night events.
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That's what I get for listening to the cop I was with when I made that post. Goes to show that they don't know crap about the law.
 
Legally right does nto make it morally right, just like moral right is not necessarily legal right..

That being said, I aint got enough facts to make a judgement..

What is unerving though is high fiving and chest thumping over the killing of a man who may have just been an obnoxious drunk...

Real High Road..real scary

O well ordinary Germans excuted people too without a qualm

PS I gave a smirk of satisfaction when Ted Bundy fried

WildbuthtereisadiffernenceisntthereAlaska
 
With ya on the bundy wild, if posthumously - I wasn't old enough to care at the time he fried =)

J/Tharg!
 
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