How to get killed...

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No one has tried to devine what the decedent may have thought. The caution against treating a firearm as a magical protective tool is good advice. as "magical"

I saw no mocking--just a reference to the clear evidence of the fact.

I do not see it that way at all,

Pointing out how a person's actions led to an unfortunate result does not constitute mocking or derision in any way.


I never said pointing out ones actions is mocking.

Don't practice. Buy some ammo, load your gun and then don't bother with it after that. Guns are magic--just having one will definitely protect you.

2. Carry chamber empty. You'll certainly have time to chamber a round if you're taken by surprise. Especially given the proficiency you've developed through your rigorous training program over the past few decades.

3. Try to clear your house alone if you hear a noise. Don't listen to folks who say that you have the advantage if you move to a protected spot behind cover, prepare to defend yourself and summon the authorities. Get a gun and start walking around looking for a bullet from the front end.

The bolded portions are at best poorly chosen and to me read like mocking. They are full of sarcasm and derision for this man’s lack of preparedness and/or training. If you don’t see it that way then we simply disagree. Those three points could be easily reworded to express the author’s intent in a way that has no sarcasm or mocking at all.

I shouldn’t have said anything at all but it made me feel terrible to see a dead man mocked and to not say something. Go ahead, tell me I’m wrong, but I’m not stupid. I know sarcasm and mockery when I see it. Now, I truly am done responding. May he Rest In Peace and may his family find comfort and closure.
 
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The bolded portions are at best poorly chosen and to me read like mocking.
Not to me--not at all.

They are full of sarcasm and derision for this man’s lack of preparedness and/or training.
The do not deride "this man's" anything. They tell others what not to do

Those three points could be easily reworded to express the author’s intent in a way that has no sarcasm or mocking at all.
But probably with less effectiveness. We need to get the points across as effectively as possible.

I shouldn’t have said anything at all but it made me feel terrible to see a dead man mocked and to not say something.
One more time: the dead man has not been mocked--at all. His errors were reported factually, and the lessons learned presented for very important training purposes in an effective way. Learn to separate the two. This is serious stuff,

I wouild imagine that you would have a terrible time reviewing a comprehensive report, with video simulation, of an airplane crash that resulted from pilot error.
 
One should sit through an analysis of your actions after a shooting simulation. They are not known to coddle your feelings. It is really life and death and I don't think our tone was out of line.
 
It is really life and death and I don't think our tone was out of line.
It is essential to get the points across in a manner that they are not ignored, are clearly understood, and are not forgotten.

That should reduce the number of times we have to have this conversation.
 
Not in this case, but in general on the Internet, there is a tendency to post shooting incidents and want 'attaboys' for your action or the action of someone using a gun that worked out even if there were reasonable critiques. Then folks get upset as the 'attaboy' theme was violated.
 
I'll just go ahead and say it: the man acted stupidity, made a series of stupid decisions and/ or non- decisions and got himself killed.

So what if saying this truth might "hurt someone's feelings." One can eventually recover from hurt feelings. There is no recovery from death.
 
We have all done stupid things.

I have.....
  • Left doors unlocked
  • Kept my defensive firearm where I could not reasonably expect to get to it timely
  • Responded to a bump in the night by arming myself and heading toward the apparent trouble
People have been victimized after having done all of those. They are ways to get killed.

The likelihood of a bad outcome varies greatly among them.

The third one--surely the most serious of these, in terms of probability--was discussed in my State concealed carry class, which is not longer required.
 
My last comment on reviewing armed incidents critically (both the good and the bad parts).

The Department I worked for encouraged it and every unit I worked made a point of an “after action review”, rarely formal and often done only with those involved present… We did this for any incident that involved high risk - not just firearms incidents…

The object? To make us better at working together and to examine mistakes and hopefully solve them before the next time. Things got interesting when there was clear evidence that some other individual, unit or agency was the problem when things went south… Glad I’m long out of that world.
 
I hope you have a good day and that you do not take any of my statements to be a personal attack on you or your character.
I don't see it that way at all.
However, you insinuated that he viewed a firearm as magical, and then appeared to mock his lack of training.
The evidence points to that being true. He picked it up, chamber empty, loaded with ammo that was proven to be decades old based on it matching the other ammo in the house that was dated, and went out to try to clear a house alone. That's either a severe lack of training or a belief that the gun (even chamber empty) will carry the day regardless of the tactics used.

Or, I suppose it could also be the result of not really thinking through any of what he was doing before taking action.
The fact that you felt the need to pointedly say you weren’t intending to insult him in your original post...
Pointing out that a person made clear errors that contributed to their death is not complimentary and it's easy to get focused on that and miss the point. I was trying to make it clear that the point of the post wasn't to disparage the person for his actions but rather to focus on how we can make better decisions--and potentially have better outcomes. In order to learn from lessons, one must be willing to point out/admit when errors are made--otherwise how can it make sense to say that something different should have been done?

"Yes, he did everything right, but you shouldn't do it the way he did."

Obviously that doesn't make sense. That kind of thinking is what led the FBI to blame a single round of ammunition for the 1986 Miami Shootout Fiasco. A real analysis takes looking at the whole situation, including the actions of participants. They appeared to be unwilling to do that and that sent them on a multi-decade chase after better ammo as if that would solve problems with tactics.

So the first step is pointing out what was done wrong. Only then can one start looking at how to improve on the decisions/tactics. It's really hard to do that while keeping everything complimentary to the participants, especially if the mistakes were elementary or multiple.
The bolded portions are at best poorly chosen and to me read like mocking.
Those are instructions for people who don't want to learn from what went wrong--who, in spite of having access to a huge amount of information, access to the real world experience of others, and access to inexpensive training, choose to cling to the type of thinking that the homeowner used. Of course, presumably, his decisions and mindset were made without the same benefits that people here have.

Anyway, the whole reason there's frustration evident in the OP is because I wish it had worked out differently. I wish the homeowner hadn't been killed, that he had remained safe. I feel bad for him, for his family, for his friends. I can't do anything about any of that, but I figured that maybe his compelling story could be used to motivate others to make different (better) decisions.

Yeah, that's a lot of words, I agree. I think maybe I could have made it a lot shorter by just saying this:

Analyzing real-world scenarios is going to involve pointing out errors made and one inescapable outcome is that no matter how that is handled, some people are going to feel that it disrespects those who made the errors.

All I can say is that wasn't my intent and I tried to make that clear from the beginining.
 
How might any of that have changed the outcome here?

The difference would be that the guns are fully loaded and ready for use. No empty chambers like in the OP. Also, the SxS, the AK, and the 10/22 all have lights on them. As the SxS, .357 revolver and the AK all hang on the same wall rack opposite the door, I can hunker down behind the bed and be on the phone to 911 at the same time.
 
The evidence points to that being true. He picked it up, chamber empty, loaded with ammo that was proven to be decades old based on it matching the other ammo in the house that was dated, and went out to try to clear a house alone. That's either a severe lack of training or a belief that the gun (even chamber empty) will carry the day regardless of the tactics used.

I don’t know anything more about the incident then what’s posted here. I do know for a fact that there are people who are afraid to carry a semi-auto with a round in the chamber. When I took over corrections at the sheriffs office I discovered that despite the mandatory training in the academy I had two officers who were carrying with the chamber empty.

There are also many people who keep guns for self defense but no ammunition on hand because “they could never shoot someone”. I know these people exist because I’ve met some of them.

Im not saying that the victim here was like that, I’m just saying there are people like that out there. The My gun is my magic talisman and I will be safe as long as it’s in my hand people are out there.

A dispassionate analysis of an incident is often brutal but it’s in no way disparaging to the victim. No one here has posted anything disparaging the victim here.
 
I've read countless news articles on traffic accidents that indicate fatalities, and then mention whether or not the victims were wearing seat belts.

Just sayin', is all.. ;)
 
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