Could you make this shot at 43 yards with your carry pistol?

Styx said:

So many with little faith in themselves.

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Not to mention my personal limitations, I have an equipment limitation as well.

While I've made some fairly long shots with my old Beretta 21A using the single action trigger and walking the shots onto target, this particular pocket shooter is a different story.

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chicharrones said:

Not to mention my personal limitations, I have an equipment limitation as well.

While I've made some ridiculously long shots with my old Beretta 21A using the single action trigger and walking the shots onto target, this particular pocket shooter is a different story.

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RM380! Very underrated little pistol. I you to pocket carry one, and still have it. It's all dinged and scratched up, but she still works good as new. I reckon it would be hard to make such a shot with it though.

WoW!! Very impressive video. Extremely prepared LEO with a calm presence and forward thinking. My hat's off to this officer! Glad there are cops like him in this world.

Just for fun I went to the range this afternoon and tried a few things. First, I set up a silhouette target at 50 yards. Then I strapped on my .357 Tracker with a four inch barrel. Three shots, easy-peasy center mass. Next, I holstered the revolver, did five pushups, ran to the target and back, another five pushups, drew the gun and fired five shots. They were a lot more spread out, and one missed. I repeated this exercise with my Browning Hi Power, all hits, and my full size P80. This was only the second time out with the P80. I noticed I was holding the sights low and that's where I shot. Maybe at this point I was getting worn out. Anyway, I tried again, holding the sights higher, and did a little better. A group of people showed up at the range so I cancelled the shinanigens and just shot at the target with my Glock 29, standing safely behind the line. What a difference! I went from multiple hits on the target to barely hitting the paper. I tried 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG all with similarly dismal one or two shot hits.

Bad news, my most frequent carry pistol isn't the best for 50 yards. Good news, I'm still pretty good with a full size handgun. Other good news, it was a fun drill. I want to do more of it.

GunnyUSMC said:

Different people will react differently on an adrenaline rush. Some act like a lab rat on crack and others will be calm and collect.
I’ve been in several situations where the death was on the sideline to collect the loser. I’m one of those people that gets very calm when things go sideways. Could I make that shot with a handgun under the same conditions? I don’t know.

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Absolutely correct! And most people do not know how they will react until they find themselves in a stressful situation. And I am the same way as you, I normally stay calm and focused in high stress situations. That has also helped me when I worked as a bouncer too. I don't know if I could make a shot like that now days, I'm out of shape and disabled.

And the old saying still holds true - Train like you fight.

I usually take some clay birds with me to the range and shoot them at different distances out to at least 50 yards with my centerfire and rimfire pistols.

Twenty one years ago while in the police academy, we had a contest at the range. They had a steel target that was 12” x 12”. There were 20 of us in the class. We started at 10 yard. You got one shot. We all had S&W 4006 DAO pistols, standard issue at the time. If you missed you were out. It got down to me and one other guy in the class by the time we got to the 50 yard line. We both keep getting hits. We ended up having to go all the back into the parking lot, right at 75 yard. The other guy missed and I hit. That was a hell of a lucky day for me. I doubt I could do that again.

Can I do it? Probably not, I’m not that lucky.
Just like most any other skill activity, the more you practice the luckier you get. I’m guessing the cop is a pretty good shot and practices quite a bit. Practice doesn’t always make perfect, but it sure does make you luckier!

Well, the headshot was a lucky accident most likely. But, he was good enough to get that hit. So, I’m guessing any misses weren’t that far off.

I always practice from 3 out to 100 yards.

It was on this very forum, not that long ago, I got a some heat for posting a 100 yard target.

“How can you justify taking a 100 yard shot?” “You’ll be indicted for murder!” Etc.

I really don’t care. I want to know, if I have to, I can stop a threat at almost any possible range.

It can’t hurt. It might save yours, or somebody else’s life.

Push yourself a little. Everybody can stand at 7 yards and shoot a reasonable group.

It wasn’t that long ago 50 yards was considered a decent long range shot.

At 100 (with a 1911 and 230 ball) aim at the head, or a little higher. A friend suggested “pretend he’s holding his fist on top of his head. Aim there.”

43 yards, if I was carrying my S&W 4" M-19, it would be no problem at all...

I've done a LOT of shooting with a handgun out to 200 meters, so 43 yards isn't all that far away, to hit a target that big.

DM

Deployment of the long gun (assuming AR type platform) would have increased the odds several folds for anyone in both accuracy and terminal effectiveness....BUT.....

I understand he was just in a high speed chase, and just rammed! And knowing the perp had already fatally engaged fellow public servants.....
The perameters for deployment of the long gun must be decided upon if there is ample time do do so based on the threat assessment. It can take several seconds to do so....possibly even longer under adrenaline, and while being actively engaged, that can be hard to afford. He did what his instincts told him to do and he did it correctly. What i do hope is that he had his patrol rifle at least in mind, and decided there wasnt enough time to deploy it in the moment. His assessment must have told him the perp was now on foot and armed, actively engaging, and he needed to get out of his patrol car (the death trap) as a necessity for defensive purposes as soon as possible.

Would you have taken the time to retrieve the rifle (i know its impossible to know because you werent there in the moment) I like to think Id make every effort to get a long gun deployed when i have an extra second to do so.
The officer did what HE needed to do to cover his ASP in the moment. God bless him.

Not with my Glock 45, but with my Dan Wesson Guardian, not a problem.

Most of Sig EDC competition stages were shot at short ranges with only 2 to 3 targets. But there was a stage with 3 steel torso targets (with red light indicators). 15yd, 30yd and ~60yd. Everybody's shooting P365s. 10 round limit. It was a lesson more than anything else. Other than the stress of the clock, my only concern was I had not sighted in at that distance. Took a wild guess that I'd be low left and shot for the left shoulder. Hit on second shot. Could I make with incoming fire? Probably not. But nice to know it's feasible. For the new shooters it seemed impossible, but as one told me, something to work on.


photo credit Brian Chiaravalle

Palladan44 said:

Deployment of the long gun (assuming AR type platform) would have increased the odds several folds for anyone in both accuracy and terminal effectiveness....BUT.....

I understand he was just in a high speed chase, and just rammed! And knowing the perp had already fatally engaged fellow public servants.....
The perameters for deployment of the long gun must be decided upon if there is ample time do do so based on the threat assessment. It can take several seconds to do so....possibly even longer under adrenaline, and while being actively engaged, that can be hard to afford. He did what his instincts told him to do and he did it correctly. What i do hope is that he had his patrol rifle at least in mind, and decided there wasnt enough time to deploy it in the moment. His assessment must have told him the perp was now on foot and armed, actively engaging, and he needed to get out of his patrol car (the death trap) as a necessity for defensive purposes as soon as possible.

Would you have taken the time to retrieve the rifle (i know its impossible to know because you werent there in the moment) I like to think Id make every effort to get a long gun deployed when i have an extra second to do so.
The officer did what HE needed to do to cover his ASP in the moment. God bless him.

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I learned a few things about carrying an AR in a squad car.

1. The sling was folded up and, a piece of inner tube wrapped around it holding it flat the stock. That sling will catch everything in your car when you get out in a hurry. Microphone. Seat belt. Big Gulp.

2. if you have optics, no flip up lens covers. Leave them off. Blow the lenses clean every once in a while.

3. The only optics I carried were A Trijicon ACOG or an Aimpoint with a year battery life. (Changed out every six months)

I watched too many Officers having to untangle their high speed low drag Delta Certified sling from their car.

Then uncover their scope or, flip up the lens protectors.

Then, turn on their scope.

And finally, charge the gun.

It all seems simple enough until poop is real.

Even then, there were a few times when the rifle would have been handy but, unassing the car was more important.

SGT127- you are correct.
But, training training training......right!

Palladan44 said:

SGT127- you are correct.
But, training training training......right!

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No argument. But, all those steps take a while. Eliminate what you can.

Sounds like the slings need to just get lost if theyre that big of an issue.

Did he mean to make a headshot probably not! Aimed fire from a practiced LE Officer given 5 chances, sure. If he was aiming center mass the shot may have been a miss but it’s why you practice. That 24 inch group landed a good shot, luck favors the prepared! I used to practice at a metal bowling pin machine at 50 yards, was pretty good at dropping 4 out of 5 with my SBH off hand. My Sig 226 never saw a group bigger than 6” at 25 during qualification, some years we did stressed fire. Point is if fundamentals are good it increases your chances of landing that necessary shot.

I've not shot my EDC at 43yds - gonna have to try that.. (p365)
I have however shot 8" steel plates at 100yds with my 4" Model 66 using .38s. I was hitting an average of 4 out of 6. Trajectory was like a howitzer shell though...

I believe I could make that shot. I would opt for a CM shot however. I try to push myself when I'm out shooting. Get lazy and comfortable and I wanna try something new. My range is only around 50 yds, but I have shot every distance from near contact to 50y with pistols.

I always fire a mag or two from my Glock 27 at 100 yards at my 12x20 steel targets at the end of my shooting sessions. If I miss more than a couple I'm going too fast. I sometimes fire a few at my 200 yard target too but the entire target is hidden under the slide of my gun by that point and accuracy is abysmal at best. The flight time is pretty comical when you accidentally get a hit that far out though

Under no stress I'd expect I could hit a head at 43 with every round. Under physical stress from adrenaline and exercise I wouldn't expect to miss either from year's of big game hunting on foot with a handgun climbing mountains. Now Under THAT kind of stress I may not be able a fat bull in the arse at 15 paces....I just do not know.

I'm not a bullseye shooter and I don't consider myself a great shooter. I am a handgun hunter though and I have always worked on 50 to 100 yards shooting minimum. Early on I deer hunted with a Glock 20. Then a delta. Since the big x- frames came out ive pushed it out farther than that though. But the last few years I've gone back to 10mm and 44 just for fun.

The service guns and the compacts based on them are far more accurate than People think. Once you get down into the pocket sized guns though they can be pretty rough. I can't shoot my full size Glocks any better than my 26 or 27 as far as slow fire accuracy. Split times are another story.

EMC45 said:

I believe I could make that shot. I would opt for a CM shot however.

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That was my thought too. Unless I just knew that the target was wearing body armor id be shooting center mass. If I got a headshot it would have been from trigger jerk or heartbeat. Lol

Glock 41= yes.
1911 = yes.
Glock 34 = yes.
Glock 23 = yes, but expect some sloppiness and missed shots.
Anything smaller = no.

You don't know your limits until you take the time to find them.

I can hit a torso sized target regularly with my Glock 19 and 26 at 40 yards, but that’s on a steel target on a one way range.

Not sure I could make the shot on a two way range and adrenaline pumping through my veins. Just being honest

no

murf