I presume you mean 'simulant' instead of 'stimulant'...
Even so, I actually laughed at that phrase.
Exceptionally well put.
Freudian slip!
I presume you mean 'simulant' instead of 'stimulant'...
Even so, I actually laughed at that phrase.
Exceptionally well put.
It is an evolution of the .44 Russian, the invention of smokeless powder and the invention of the S&W New Century. S&W wanted a cartridge with improvements for their new revolver. Gotta love a Triple Lock!
I was wondering this the other day. My guess was that the .44 Special just became a natural progression from the .44 percussion revolvers
Driftwood has plenty of period ads, one of which was a S&W ad comparing various cartridge penetration in wood. Interesting that the 45 Colt was excluded. There were no velocities given, just penetration in wood, and as I recall, the 44 Special was a winner!
Slamfire may be referring to this page from a reprint of the 1900 S&W catalog. At the time, S&W was not chambering any of their revolvers for 45 Colt, that is why it is not included. And 44 Special had not been invented yet, that is why it is not included.
In 1908, the 44 Hand Ejector 1st Model, also known as the New Century revolver was introduced. Because of the unique 3 position lock up of the cylinder, this model has forever been known by the popular name Triple Lock.
OK, lets talk about the 44 Special cartridge for a moment. A friend asked me once, what is special about the 38 Special? Nothing I replied, it is simply a 19th Century marketing term. The same with 44 Special. Smith and Wesson developed the 44 Special in conjunction with the Triple Lock. As with the 38 Special, which S&W also developed, most S&W 44 Special revolvers were marked 44 S&W SPECIAL CTG. (CTG simply means cartridge).
Watch that video I provided the link for. They give the whole history of S&W and Colt Military Revolvers. The politics behind it and the contracts that were awarded with production numbers. Yes the British did buy and use .455 chambered revolvers from both makers in WWI as did Canada for both military use and domestic security. The first order was actually commercial Triple Locks re-chambered from .44 Special to .455, pretty blue and all.Corporations pathologically loathe each other, and won't promote other companies names or products unless that is the only way to make profit. Even then, they hate it. Still, S&W did make a 45 caliber revolver for the Army, but apparently they were only advertising the "American or English" 45. Was that the 455 Webley? Which would be again, another competitor, so the customer has to guess at the name.
You did not expressly mention which was the first 44 Special revolver. What year was that introduced?
S&W did make a 45 caliber revolver for the Army, but apparently they were only advertising the "American or English" 45. Was that the 455 Webley?
You did not expressly mention which was the first 44 Special revolver. What year was that introduced?
A friend asked me once, what is special about the 38 Special? Nothing I replied, it is simply a 19th Century marketing term.
You did not expressly mention which was the first 44 Special revolver. What year was that introduced?
An Internet Expert opined that it was like the .32 Winchester Special, meant for smokeless but usable with black. Sounds to me like a chance agreement of nomenclature from two different companies.
was that 3rd Model special order with the ejector shroud the same as used by the legendary Lawman Jelly Bryce?
He had a 3rd Model .44 Special. Said to have used a ThreePersons holster. Just curious! I love the look of the shroud with the thin N frame barrel. When you showed the nickel gun this is what I thought of. From the American Rifleman.I do not know anything about Jacob Aldolphus Bryce. I looked him up today but I do not know what type of revolver he used.
According to SCSW the 44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model, the one with the shroud under the barrel, was produced from 1926 until 1941. That is why it is sometimes known as the Model 1926. SCSW says this model was usually available as special order only and was not cataloged until 1940, when it replaced the 44 HE 2nd Model (the one without the shroud). Interestingly enough, the 2nd Model was cataloged from 1915 to 1940. There were 4,976 3rd Models produced, 17,510 2nd Models were produced.
My 3rd Model shipped in 1929, and I believe I mentioned earlier that it was carried by an officer in WWII. Somewhere I have a very beat up holster that came with it.
So who would the main market have been fellas? Say the first 100 shipped would it be 20 cops, 20 target shooters, 60 regular folk or different ratio?
LoL. Highlight of my couf-afflicted day.You see, people and animals, are just like wood, so the more penetration in wood, the more lethal the round. The logic is irrefutable. Especially late in the 19th century. Today we know, the true index of lethality is penetration in plastic milk jugs filled with water. That is because milk jugs can be plucked out of recycling containers on recycle day, and are easily filled with water. Used to be the gold standard was wet newspaper and wet phone books, which used to be the trash at the curb, but no longer. I remember stacks of newspapers and phone books, all tied into a bundle with string, on the curb at trash day. Them was the days! The shooting community has smoothly and seamlessly moved from wood penetration (requires a table saw, drills, and screws to make the wood tissue stimulant) to wet newspaper/phone books, to plastic milk jugs filled with water. Tissue stimulant technology advances one garbage can epoch after another.
Notice the shot placement on the target, I find it of interest these were belly shots.So Harry Callahan would have something to shoot.
Notice the shot placement on the target, I find it of interest these were belly shots.
Nothing will put you down faster than a belly shot.
We used to use the canvass carpenter aprons they give away free at hardware stores. One pouch for empties and one for fresh rounds.In the circle, I think that is what they are going after.
Not really the scope of the thread, but it is interesting to see how police training has changed over the years. I remember reading about the newhall shooting and one of the things that came out way the officers saved their brass, they are getting shot at and took time to drop the brass out of their revolvers into their hand and put it in their pocket. This was how they trained, so when the "real deal" came up this is what they did.
Just in my time, we have moved from standing still and shooting a set target to having to move while shooting, and having the target move as well. In "real life" you are not going to stand squared up at a bad guy standing square to you and start shooting. You are going to be in a "not normal" position. Your training should reflect that.
I can see how a 1970's movie would have a nice circle center mass to shoot at.
Could it also be that in early 20th Century policing the idea was to bring in a live suspect to stand trial as opposed to a corpse whose family could be paid off not to incite a riot?Some of the large departments actual taught and expected those “belly Shots” in the 1970’s and some trainers even taught shooting for the hips to “put a man down”
Unfortunatly despite “common knowledge” neither statistically “puts a man down” as well as a high center mass shot.
Then the low shooters argued that belly and hips move less than the upper center mass and so are easier to hit. Then the high guys argued that it evened out as again it takes more hip and belly hits to do a stop.
It was fun to watch.
Dr. Fackler trained and encouraged training to hit high center mass. He made up some anatomical drawings and showed us that the belly shot had the least chances of hitting a support structure, and least chance of hitting a vessel that would lead to rapid blood loss.
He then did the hips and showed that the major vessels were hard to hit there as well and that the thigh bones at the hip made up a surprisingly small portion of the target and that the vessels were even a smaller target. He showed how the hip itself was actually a fairly light latice work and, as a combat trauma surgeon, that bullet hits to the hip usually simply holed a part rather than breaking it owing to the material of the hip.
Sure if what I see is a hip peeking around a corner ( it happens, folks get cover for chest and head and forget about other parts) I would shoot for that…. A hit beats NO hit.
Same thing, if say I go to ground and am looking under a car or stricture and I can see up to just below the rib cage, I would go for belly shot because again A hit beats No hit.
Given a target showing mid thigh to top of head like the old FBI and such…. that high center mass 5V ring looks right to me.
I see very few hunters going for a gut “belly”shot… because they seldom put a game animal down right “there”
I see very few hunters going for a hip shot on game…. because no one wants to spend the day and half the night tracking wounded game.
Oh sure quartering shots on deer and such are often taken through the hips or shoulders, but the actual target is still the heart lung area and any “anchoring” by breaking bone that might occur is a plus and those shots give one something to aim at.
Am I “corrrect”? Who knows? But I just described how I figure it and why I think high center mass.
Your milage may very.
-kBob
Anyway, I tend to agree with you that S&W probably created the new 44 Special round in conjunction with their new revolver because they wanted a fancy new cartridge for their fancy new revolver. As I'm sure you know, any revolver chambered for 44 Special can also fire the shorter 44 Russian round, just as any revolver chambered for 44 Magnum can also fire the shorter 44 Special round.
I don't know if I agree with you about S&W obsoleting all the old 44 Russian revolvers.
Smith and Wesson missed an opportunity to create a revolver and cartridge equal to, or exceed the power of a 45 LColt.
You would know, did anyone make 44 Russian revolvers after the 44 Special was introduced?