Assess this recent in-the-news defensive shooting incident (Houston)

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(JohnKSa already correctly analyzed the pivotal issues)
 
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JohnKSa said:
Saying that the guy was shot while leaving is sort of tricky. Maybe he's leaving, maybe he's just going to make another lap of the room. Maybe he's checking to see if anyone is outside the store before he herds everyone in back to shoot them. It's hard to know what is really happening there.
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Does it matter?

Kleanbore said:
"What if" won't enter into it.
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Or is it what a potential juror sees from a perched video camera view?

Kleanbore said:
I see him departing.
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That’s a better video at the twitter link, I didn’t even notice the guy the robber was closing distance on, when he was shot in the back, sitting right by the door.
 
Does it matter?
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Yes, it does. The defender's reasonable belief that an imminent deadly threat exists is a necessary part of determining if deadly force is justified.

If the defender reasonably believes that the crime is over, the BG is departing and poses no further threat, there's no reasonable belief that that an imminent deadly threat exists and therefore deadly force can't be justified regardless of the other circumstances of the scenario.

If the defender reasonably believes that the crime is still in progress and innocent life is in imminent danger then, depending on the other circumstances of the situation, deadly force may be justified.

This is why it is critical for people who carry to know the law and to be very careful about what they say in the aftermath of an attack. A shoot that looks perfectly justifiable based purely on the circumstances could turn out to be murder if the "defender" states that when he fired, he believed that the BG was leaving and posed no further threat.
 
JohnKSa said:
If the defender reasonably believes that the crime is over, the BG is departing and poses no further threat, there's no reasonable belief that that an imminent deadly threat exists and therefore deadly force can't be justified regardless of the other circumstances of the scenario.
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If the guy is no longer a threat why does this guy still have his hands raised?

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We all know that guy was never really a threat because he didn’t even have a real gun. So is what we know or think important if we are not on his jury?
 
Kleanbore said:
It would make no difference if we were.
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No single member of a jury makes a difference in outcome?

Why do attorneys spend so much time trying to get them to think certain ways then? Generally in opposition to one another “guilty/not guilty”?
 
jmorris said:
No single member of a jury makes a difference in outcome?

Why do attorneys spend so much time trying to get them to think certain ways then? Generally in opposition to one another “guilty/not guilty”?
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You missed me.

My point was that when the judge instructs the jury, they are told, in addition to what the law is, to base their judgment on what a reasonable person in similar circumstances, knowing what the defendant knew at the time, would have done.
 
I wonder how many jurors think their thoughts are unreasonable. Even the ones that actually have unreasonable thoughts…
 
I have to wonder whether the judge will give a self defense instruction, without which the defense would not be able to argue justification.

Might we see a plea on a lesser charge?
 
Night Rider said:
If they find him that video is going to hang him.

I could almost justify shooting the guy in the back. Because there were customers at the door that he could have been approaching. And I will give the shooter the benefit of the doubt on that.

But when he got up and approached the guy who was laying on the floor and shot him in the back and it looks like shot him in the back of the head he went over the line.

I don't know if I could say in good conscience that he committed murder but he went way beyond the bounds of self defense
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Is shooting a dead guy even a crime? Vandalism?
 
I can absolutely understand a case for self-defense but that coup de grace is going to be tough to explain away.

Do we know the race of the robber? Sad to say but this may well have a bearing on whether the shooter is charged once they find him.
 
I think the guy was in the clear until he kept shooting when the robber was down, and that last shot when he was standing over him just sunk his boat,
 
Kleanbore said:
I have to wonder whether the judge will give a self defense instruction, without which the defense would not be able to argue justification.

Might we see a plea on a lesser charge?
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There really is no telling.

Take the Devin Jevon Harper (self defense) case where he killed Ibory Dale Taylor at a gas station (argument over girlfriend) and shot him after he was on the ground in that case as well. The grand jury no billed the case.

What I do find odd about that case is the surveillance video was never released to the public.
 
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Speedo66 said:
Are Texans so different that delivering a coup de grace to a guy already shot several times and down and not moving will pass muster?

Plus, everyone on a jury may not be a "true Texan" as you might describe them.
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I was quoting the Texas Attorney who stated that even if this guy is ever identified it's very likely that he will be No Billed.
 
There are several questions here.

One is whether they dude was legit--many are referring to him as a CHP/LCH, but we no longer have LTC in Texas. But, it being Houston there are virtually no guarantees the shooter is not a Prohibited Person. Which will complicate the situation no small end.

Go back and watch the beginning of the video. Notice how much fumbling and wriggling the guy goes through to get the pistol out. He decided that the guy entering was a threat, but it takes him near forever (stress is stress) to get the pistol out. He could not have engages the robber any faster than he did.

HPD put a big blurb on f/b that they want to question the guy. And, given that he picked up the robbers "gun" they probably want to sort out how it got from Point A to Point B.

Shooter gave the stolen money back to the robbed patrons, which is going to affect any jury, Grand or otherwise.

My gut eve guess is that this will be a mess. If only because most human life is messy, not neat, easy, and simple.
 
What does no billed mean in Texas?

This phrase, endorsed by a grand jury on the written indictment submitted to it for its approval, means that the evidence was found insufficient to indict.
 
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