10mm resurgence

dylan84 said:
That is true but what I find interesting is people think it is[snip]
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It doesn't matter what people think. One is objectively somewhat more powerful than another. Whether it makes a difference is another matter altogether, back in the day poachers hunted moose (successfully) by shooting them in the eye with a .22 as an extreme example of "not needing more" -fallacy.

Personally I go by the principle that it's better to have and not need than the other way around. And everything is a compromise, my Desert Eagle is way beyond my carry comfort threshold, Para 16-40 reamed out to 10mm nicely at it, and the gun that would be just right in my book, LAR Grizzly in .45WinMag, is difficult to find these days.
 
dylan84 said:
That is true but what I find interesting is people think it is just that much better on killing a bear. The real question I have is "Is it really?". With all the terminal ballistics studies that have been done there is marginal killing factor in all auto handguns. That is why they have just gone back to 9mm pretty much everywhere. I just had this conversation with my bro in law the other day. He traded in his 40 for a 10 to carry when he bow hunts in the mountains. I told him that with the proper ammo and shot placement the bear probably won't know the difference. I would bet that a whole mag dump center of mass to the biggest of griz would still end up with you badly maimed. Probably carrying whatever you can shoot the best with to get a headshot is what would make the biggest difference. I would use a 30-06 or bigger on the bear first personally! lol
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The wounding potential from a flat meplat begins to increase substantially as velocity increases from 1000fps to 1200fps (just as an example).

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And the extra energy available also allows for a better chance to break bones farther into the body. More power is just more power, to be applied in all the ways that a handgun bullet uses it.
 
I’m not qualified to tie up on the debates about efficacy or ability to max out a round or anyone of these fine arguments. But I want to ask a question. Do you think the resurgence of 10mm could be I t he spirit of getting the most punch from the least capacity ? As a concern for the future mag bans that may come are we shifting back from more bullets less power to more power less bullets?
 
Blkhrt13 said:
I’m not qualified to tie up on the debates about efficacy or ability to max out a round or anyone of these fine arguments. But I want to ask a question. Do you think the resurgence of 10mm could be I t he spirit of getting the most punch from the least capacity ? As a concern for the future mag bans that may come are we shifting back from more bullets less power to more power less bullets?
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Yes I do. In part at least. I think some of it is simply advertisement-driven consumerism, and some of it is also the attainability of a "bear load" in a familiar semi-auto format. I also think the reduced popularity [of .40S&W] has left more of a disparity between the most popular SD cartridge - the 9x19mm - and the 10mm. I mean, it's 1 bigger right!

But getting the most effective terminal impact per shot from a limited capacity magazine, is certainly a factor for some.
 
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dylan84 said:
That is true but what I find interesting is people think it is just that much better on killing a bear. The real question I have is "Is it really?". With all the terminal ballistics studies that have been done there is marginal killing factor in all auto handguns. That is why they have just gone back to 9mm pretty much everywhere. I just had this conversation with my bro in law the other day. He traded in his 40 for a 10 to carry when he bow hunts in the mountains. I told him that with the proper ammo and shot placement the bear probably won't know the difference. I would bet that a whole mag dump center of mass to the biggest of griz would still end up with you badly maimed. Probably carrying whatever you can shoot the best with to get a headshot is what would make the biggest difference. I would use a 30-06 or bigger on the bear first personally! lol
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Actually the user reports, from real users who've shot real bears in the field with a 10mm pistol of some type, is that the 10mm puts 'em down.

This user had a Glock .....
Charged by a Grizzly: A 10mm Glock Saved My Life | Outdoor Life

This user had a Sig P220
....A Bear Charged Me - Epic Story of Self Defense in the Field - GunsAmerica Digest
 
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Nobody is claiming 40 s&w is as powerful as 10mm. Anyone that would do so is an idiot. The open debate is how large the delta is.
 
someguy2800 said:
The open debate is how large the delta is.
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As the topic of this thread states, apparently large enough to facilitate the comeback of 10mm. Many people seem to gravitate towards larger hence - in their perception - "better" so it doesn't surprise me much. The notoriety of 10mm as a hard kicker when it really isn't may have influenced that. The first time I shot a 10mm I was prepared for a beating and was very surprised how manageable it really is, even with 200gr 1200fps Norma ammo of the day.

I like the fact that it has some headroom for reloads. You can load it quite hot without pushing the envelope and risking malfunctions or gun damage on a hot day when the temperature and, accordingly, chamber pressure may be higher than usual. And when you really like to push it, there's case volume and nominal pressure specification to facilitate it.

IMO a nearly perfect cartridge for full size pistols.
 
hq said:
As the topic of this thread states, apparently large enough to facilitate the comeback of 10mm. Many people seem to gravitate towards larger hence - in their perception - "better" so it doesn't surprise me much. The notoriety of 10mm as a hard kicker when it really isn't may have influenced that. The first time I shot a 10mm I was prepared for a beating and was very surprised how manageable it really is, even with 200gr 1200fps Norma ammo of the day.

I like the fact that it has some headroom for reloads. You can load it quite hot without pushing the envelope and risking malfunctions or gun damage on a hot day when the temperature and, accordingly, chamber pressure may be higher than usual. And when you really like to push it, there's case volume and nominal pressure specification to facilitate it.

IMO a nearly perfect cartridge for full size pistols.
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I agree with you on all counts. The first 10 I ever shot was a glock 27 and I was expecting it to be nearly unshootable in such a light 2 finger grip pistol but it was a pussycat. The only negative to the 10mm is the relative lack of firearms so chambered, especially smaller lightweight polymer frame guns, and the brass is a lot more expensive. I would love to have a Kahr P45 or a Smith and Wesson Shield 45 chambered in 10mm. I would jump at the chance to buy either one.
 
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someguy2800 said:
I agree with you on all counts. The first 10 I ever shot was a glock 27 and I was expecting it to be nearly unshootable in such a light 2 finger grip pistol but it was a pussycat. The only negative to the 10mm is the relative lack of firearms so chambered, especially smaller lightweight polymer frame guns, and the brass is a lot more expensive. I would love to have a Kahr P45 or a Smith and Wesson Shield 45 chambered in 10mm. I would jump at the chance to buy either one.
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Isn’t the Glock 27 357 Sig?
 
Buckeye63 said:
As I just heard on a YouTube video
It seems 10mm has begun to fill the void of the 40S&W & 45ACP

Id really like to see a subcompact stagger stacked pistol.. specifically for concealed carry

Maybe in a Shield platform
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I think the trend of 10mm handguns is that they are taking the place of hunting revolvers. With power between the .357 and .41 magnums, they strike a good balance of power and capacity. I've heard that Ted Nugent uses a Glock 10mm for Black Bear hunting.
 
S.Crockett said:
Actually the user reports, from real users who've shot real bears in the field with a 10mm pistol of some type, is that the 10mm puts 'em down.

This user had a Glock .....
Charged by a Grizzly: A 10mm Glock Saved My Life | Outdoor Life

This user had a Sig P220
....A Bear Charged Me - Epic Story of Self Defense in the Field - GunsAmerica Digest
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Those are cool stories, but both were well practiced at shooting their pistols making vital zone shots. I am glad the 10mm is getting the extra marketing as it was pretty scarce when I had my 10mm. Ammo was only made by the likes of Buffalo Bore and Underwood at that time at high prices.

The second story where he shoots it through the heart could have been a 9mm. I get it though that you want to pack as much controllable, accurate heat as possible and that is the 10mm. Penetration and wound channel from 1000 fps to 1200 fps are really not significantly different from a killing perspective.

As a muzzle loading patched ball shooting hunter, shot placement is as important as it gets. I get around 1700 fps at the muzzle with a 180 grain ball. Definitely kills deer but the damage is not what I would call overwhelming. There is just not really anything forgiving about mediocre performance. Whatever you carry be good with it especially if its going to kill you if you don't kill it! lol
 
Mini30SS said:
I think the trend of 10mm handguns is that they are taking the place of hunting revolvers. With power between the .357 and .41 magnums, they strike a good balance of power and capacity. I've heard that Ted Nugent uses a Glock 10mm for Black Bear hunting.
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From what I can tell, it is also because everyone needs to add a handgun for bears now. :uhoh: Must be a lot of bears coming over to steal snacks and sell drugs or something.
 
21H40 said:
From what I can tell, it is also because everyone needs to add a handgun for bears now. :uhoh: Must be a lot of bears coming over to steal snacks and sell drugs or something.
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I lived in rural El Dorado county ( Ca. ) For almost 2 decades. Bears are a problem there. I totaled a car there in 2014 when a 500 lb Bear decided to commit suicide with my car at 50 mph. I would rather someone had shot it with a 200 grain 10mm bullet, than my $25000, 3800 lb. Bullet.
 
21H40 said:
From what I can tell, it is also because everyone needs to add a handgun for bears now. :uhoh: Must be a lot of bears coming over to steal snacks and sell drugs or something.
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I decided to upsize my carry handgun in the summer when I take my family camping because a woman was killed by a black bear about 10 miles from our favorite island to camp on. I also had to shoot one in my front yard that was becoming a rather brazen pest a few years ago but I did so with a rifle.
 
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