10mm Part 2

[Sulaco]

I read the other 10mm post and have done some research on the subject. Neither of which have really given me the answers I want. So, I am asking here.

I am interested in 10mm because it is a big bullet that goes fast.

I do not reload and am not planning to anytime soon.

What I want, is some honest comparisons of factory 10mm ammo (not all manufacturer's publish their specs) with .45ACP and 40S&W.

Can anyone do this or point me somewhere where it has been done?

I am a big fan of the "heaviest bullet at the highest velocity" thought process for defensive pistol ammo which is why I am focusing on the 10mm lately.

I am not a huge fan of 40S&W. I have shot it quite a bit and just can't get used to the extreme high pressures (lots of muzzle flip/recoil compared to 9mm and .45ACP) it uses.

Everything I have said here is my opinion and may or may not be factual.

 

[The Tourist]

The original Norma 10mm Auto loads I bought for my Bren Ten were very close to a light .41 Magnum. Very quickly even the factory realized that this was way too hot, and Harlene (customer service at Dornaus and Dixon) tried to get us proper reloading data.

The next loading from Norma, stamped with a NP on the primer, was very erratic, especially the hollowpoint load.

But I had purchased the Hensley & Gibbs 200 grain 4-ganger mold and that was going to be it for a while. In those days, it took 3 to 4 months to get a mold. And even as I was working up loads, the cartridge companies were backing down the size of the bullet. First to 180, then 175 Silver Tips, and then 155 and lower. The pressure dropped, as well.

On another front, the .45 ACP was going +P with loads using 200 AND 185 grain bullets.

In 1984 when the Bren Ten came out, they proudly claimed that the 10mm was as powerful at 100 yards as the .45 was at the muzzle. I don't think that was ever true. And if it ever was, the Bren Ten that guy used was destined for a short life. Even with the Boots Obermeyer rifling they used to 'ease' the stress of the bullet ramming into the rifling from the leade, those first cartridges were a menace.

I loaded my 10mm's with a 200 grain bullet and Blue Dot or Alcan AL-8 to 1,000 fps. Oddly, the same numbers for the newer .45 ACP's.

 

[gunfan]

This should help

I hope that the following site proves helpful.

http://www.bren-ten.com/main-site/id7.html

 

[Cal4D4]

The 10mm has several factory and many custom loaders who safely throw 200 gr @ 1200 or so. 180 gr @ 1250 is not difficult. I am a fan of Barsto and KKM barrels in Glocks and good chamber support in anything. My Glocks have digested alot of midrange (equal to top .40 S&W) and quite a few top end rounds. Do a search for Double Tap ammo and check them out.

 

[stans]

The long and short of it is that the 10mm exceeds the 40 S&W by 200 feet per second and also exceeds the 45 ACP. 45 ACP +P comes close to 10mm velocity, but still lags behind by just a little. 45 Super slightly exceeds the 10mm, but this is mostly a handloaders caliber and only one or two ammo companies, and none of the really big ones, make 45 Super ammo. 10mm is a great all around caliber, much like the 357 Magnum.

 

[Sean Smith]

Read for yourself:

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/10tech.html#ballistics

The above table is a comparison of mainstream 10mm loads to the hottest loads in other calibers. It does not include Double Tap or Texas Ammunition 10mm numbers, which are considerably higher. All numbers are the manufacturer-published ballistics.

45 ACP +P comes close to 10mm velocity, but still lags behind by just a little.

Actually, .45 ACP +P lags 10mm by a considerable margin. 200gr .45 ACP +P will hit 1,050 ft/sec. 200gr 10mm will hit 1,200-1,270 from the same barrel length with factory ammo. 230gr .45 ACP +P will hit 950 ft/sec, while 220gr 10mm will hit 1,125 ft/sec with factory ammo.

Compare loads of equal sectional density and it gets even uglier; while 230gr .45 ACP +P will give you 460 ft-lbs at the muzzle with its 950 ft/sec, a Cor-Bon 180gr JSP will hit 1,320 ft/sec and 696 ft-lbs at the muzzle... and still have more energy at 100 yards than the 230gr .45 ACP +P had at the muzzle!

 

[pwrtool45]

If you're looking at a 10mm, go ahead and start the hunt for a 1000-series S&W. Just trust me.

There are plenty of good factory defensive ammo options (Double Tap, the old stand-by Winchester Silvertip, Cor-Bon, etc) and, IIRC, both Miwall and Master make blasting ammo for that caliber. So if you don't want to, you don't need to handload to take advantage of the caliber.

The best 10mm pistols (S&Ws, Colt Delta Elites) are out of production, though. So if you want one of those, well, they ain't gettin any younger. OTOH, there are plenty of Glocks and CZ-clones to go around.

 

[MCNETT]

Click on the address in my signature. All the velocities on the website are from a stock G20 (4.6"bbl)!
-mike

 

[PO2Hammer]

Glock talk-the 10 ring has alot of links on the subject. I bought a Glock 20-10mm and a Glock 35-.40 on the same day. The 35 is long gone. Recoil between the two was about the same, and the 10mm was clearly more accurate. When using a .40 KKM conversion in the 20, recoil and muzzle flip are VERY low. Recoil with the .40 is about the same as a glock 17-9mm-mabey less. I have no experience with the S&W's, but everyone who owns one raves about them. For me the Glock 20 is perfect. Multiple power levels-10mm hot(Doubletap), 10mm moderate(Corbon, silvertip), 10mm light(fed light), .40. No failures of any kind-even with .40. 357 SIG barrel is next.

 

[agtman]

"I'm a big fan of the 'heaviest bullet at the highest velocity' *** for defensive pistol ammo."


In 10mm that means you're really looking at HP bullet-weights of 180gns, 190gns and 200gns - at least for the desired defensive purpose.

As a practical matter, the 190gn JHP from Federal isn't very fast for a 10mm (1050fps/465fpe). I'm not aware of any other 190gn 10mm load. There's more about this load here:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=147121

There are several 10mm ammomakers who load a warmish-to-hot 180gn 10mm HP:

GA: 180gn Gold Dot HP @ 1150fps/528fpe;

Hornady: 180gn XTP-HP @ 1180fps556fpe;

ProLoad: 180gn GDHP @ 1200fps/575fpe;

DoubleTap: 180gn Golden Saber HP @ 1330fps/707fpe;

DT also offered a 180gn Gold Dot HP @ 1300fps/675fpe. (It may still be available. Best to check with MCNETT).

In 200gn HP loads, Texas Ammo and DT both offer a 200gn XTP-HP load @ 1250fps/694fpe. (Hornady also sells its own 200gn 10mm XTP load, but @ mildish 1050fps/490fpe).

CorBon too sells a 180gn 10mm bonded SP @ 1320fps and a 200gn Penetrator @ 1200fps, but those are specifically marketed as hunting loads, not for defense against humans.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

For my Delta Elite, I was a fan of PMC factory ammunition. IIRC, they were 200gr solids at 1100 fps and 170gr HP at 1300 fps. Very accurate and dependable. Used the brass over for my own reloading, though, not as many times, of course, as my .45 ACP.