10mm resurgence

[MachIVshooter]

The 10mm cartridge, while inferior in stopping power to a properly loaded .45.......Bullet diameter and weight is proven for knockdown power, not velocity..

Lol.

By your logic, the .455 Webly is superior to the .300 Ultra mag, 8mm Rem Mag, .338 Win mag, .350 rem mag. I mean, it's a fatter, heavier bullet. Doesn't matter that it's only moving at 700 FPS and delivers well less than 1/10th the energy....

 

[Zaydok Allen]

What exactly is "knockdown power", how does it work, how is it quantified, how is its effect quantified?

It's the magical attribute that only the 45 acp has sufficient amounts of to stop a target.

Flame on.

The 10mm cartridge, while inferior in stopping power to a properly loaded .45, is still a very good choice. I enjoy my Glock 20.

Bullet diameter and weight is proven for knockdown power, not velocity. The 10 penetrates well but nothing can match the big heavy .45 slug in this regard. The British found this out early on with their .455 Webley revolvers.

Medium bore options like the .40 and 10mm might beat the small caliber options like 9mm Para, but aren’t as good of fightstoppers against goblins as an APC.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Iggy]

When I lived on the ranch I first carried a Colt Officer's Model 45. One day I shot a Cottontail and broke it's back. I had to stomp on it's head to kill it..

Traded for 10mm.

I carried either a Dan Wesson Govt model or CCO model 10 mm for 20 years.
During that time I had to put down injured 700 pound heifers on occasion. A shot above the eyes always knocked them over backwards.
Shot a road casualty antelope in the back of the head from about 20 yards. Blew both eyes out of their sockets.
Flattened a coyote at 80 yards. DRT. 180 gr. bullet still going faster at 100 yards than 45ACP at the muzzle.

I guess the old 10mm is good for something.

When I moved to town, I parked the 10mms. Too much horsepower for city livin'
As I have aged, I have trickled down to a SIG P365 for EDC.

 

[Capybara]

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami? Nothing wrong with 10mm obviously and people like what they like.

But it seems that a lot of gun owners just follow trends and 10mm is definitely the trend du jour. I see so many posts, here and elsewhere followed by,
"I wish they had this in 10mm", "I'll wait until they introduce this in 10mm", "Great gun, but 9mm and .45 ACP are inadequate, they should make it in 10mm."
If you reload, 10mm isn't that expensive, but if you don't, finding affordable 10mm ammo is a joke as is even finding it stocked in many gun shops.

A lot of people are weird about calibers. I guess that's why companies keep pushing lame ones like .30 Super Carry? Is firearms development slowing down
so much that all manufacturers have to offer are newer and older non-standard calibers and trying to make them popular?

 

[BreechFace]

@Capybara

I liked 10mm before the 40S&W decline, but the precipitous decline of 40S&W no doubt in my mind feeds into 10mm uptick.

The 40S&W was a great round for the streets, its hard to refute the benefits of 155/180gr .40cal expanding hollowpoints on targets at a disadvantage of 2 rounds under 9mm offerings and recoil (probably the biggest reason for the move away). For the average citizen (including me) and what they are likely to encountrer on a day to day basis 9mm makes the most sense, especially with the bullet technology that really helped overcome some 9mm issues of over-penetration and lack of controlled expansion.

Woods\ranch\hunting carry 10mm really is a nice well rounded cartridge. Not to say it doesn't provide a great round for "social" settings.

Just my thoughts but I may be all wet.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami? Nothing wrong with 10mm obviously and people like what they like.

But it seems that a lot of gun owners just follow trends and 10mm is definitely the trend du jour. I see so many posts, here and elsewhere followed by,
"I wish they had this in 10mm", "I'll wait until they introduce this in 10mm", "Great gun, but 9mm and .45 ACP are inadequate, they should make it in 10mm."
If you reload, 10mm isn't that expensive, but if you don't, finding affordable 10mm ammo is a joke as is even finding it stocked in many gun shops.

A lot of people are weird about calibers. I guess that's why companies keep pushing lame ones like .30 Super Carry? Is firearms development slowing down
so much that all manufacturers have to offer are newer and older non-standard calibers and trying to make them popular?

Actually, there are a lot of decent 10mm target loads in the $0.31-$0.35 per range, nearly the same as .45 ACP.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/10mm-auto

As cheap as the 9 minimeter Europellet? No, but it doesn’t hit like one either!

 

[Capybara]

Actually, there are a lot of decent 10mm target loads in the $0.31-$0.35 per range, nearly the same as .45 ACP.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/10mm-auto

As cheap as the 9 minimeter Europellet? No, but it doesn’t hit like one either!

Thanks for the heads up, I had only seen what my local stores have and it's a LOT more expensive than on-line, as usual. I've been paying .23-.25 per round for 9mm, .31 to .35 isn't a lot more.

 

[S.Crockett]

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami? Nothing wrong with 10mm obviously and people like what they like.
But it seems that a lot of gun owners just follow trends and 10mm is definitely the trend du jour. I see so many posts, here and elsewhere followed by,
"I wish they had this in 10mm", "I'll wait until they introduce this in 10mm", "Great gun, but 9mm and .45 ACP are inadequate, they should make it in 10mm."
If you reload, 10mm isn't that expensive, but if you don't, finding affordable 10mm ammo is a joke as is even finding it stocked in many gun shops.

Dude, a lot of folks like me were well into the 10mm AUTO before it was cool, or trendy, and were well into it even before the .40S&W was introduced in 1990. And a lot of us stayed into it well after that and certainly long after the 10mm was officially declared a "dead round," which declaration of deceasedness has been made at least nine times since 1983 by my count.

Now that the 10mm is in resurgence, with more 10mm guns and more 10mm ammo being made now than at any time in the cartridge's history, ... well, it's supposedly cool again.

 

[JDeere]

A lot of people are weird about calibers. I guess that's why companies keep pushing lame ones like .30 Super Carry? Is firearms development slowing down
so much that all manufacturers have to offer are newer and older non-standard calibers and trying to make them popular?

You got it and it's all about marketing and sales. If they don't come up with the new latest and greatest they lose money trying to sell the same ole calibers even though they are tried and true.

 

[Buzznrose]

Bullet diameter and weight is proven for knockdown power, not velocity. The 10 penetrates well but nothing can match the big heavy .45 slug in this regard. The British found this out early on with their .455 Webley revolvers.

Medium bore options like the .40 and 10mm might beat the small caliber options like 9mm Para, but aren’t as good of fightstoppers against goblins as an APC.

You got it and it's all about marketing and sales. If they don't come up with the new latest and greatest they lose money trying to sell the same ole calibers even though they are tried and true.

Same with firearms, and I admit I’ve been lured by flashy and new myself.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami?

I was born in 1982. I have only faint recollections of the show in its later years, when Sonny would have been carrying a S&W 4506.

Fun fact: Sonny's Bren Ten was actually a .45, since 10mm blanks were unobtainium.

But anyway, I got into 10mm in 2003 when a fellow at the range sold me a whole bunch of Norma ammo for a good price. But I didn't have a firearm chambered for it. So I set about searching for a 10mm pistol, picked up a Kimber Stainless Target II the following week. But the hunt was still on for the S&W 1006 I really wanted, which I found about a year later at a gun show. Then came a witness Compact 10mm I got for a song, followed by a Witness Limited 10. A few years later, I tried again to like Glock with a G20, but that ended up later being traded for a S&W 28.

My sister became a fan as well, ended up with a Witness Match 10mm and a Colt Delta Elite.

I still really like the round, but unfortunately, it does not suppress well unless you water it down to .40 S&W levels, so I don't shoot it as much these days. Still a go-to for woods carry, though.

 

[21H40]

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami? Nothing wrong with 10mm obviously and people like what they like.
...
A lot of people are weird about calibers. I guess that's why companies keep pushing lame ones like .30 Super Carry? Is firearms development slowing down
so much that all manufacturers have to offer are newer and older non-standard calibers and trying to make them popular?

I am pretty sure there were always a bunch of other weird calibers all over the place throughout history. In America it narrowed a bit after WWI and WWII because of the familiarity with 30.06 and 45 ACP, but there have always been other "same but different" options. How many different loadings are there for a 30.06 case? Really, wasn't the 30 caliber 150 grain FMJ the only one anyone could ever NEED?

Besides, when 9mm and 45 ACP were hard to find, the 10mm was available as often as it was before the panic of the day.

 

[Capybara]

Don't get me wrong, I love guns and the more calibers, the better. But this 10mm "Take 87" resurgence strikes me as a fad.
When it fades again in 6 months, the die hards who have always owned and like 10mm will continue on
and the next fad will begin and the followers will surge to whatever that next fad is.

I'd like to see 10mm become defacto pistol caliber #3. 9mm, .45 ACP and 10mm is a good lineup of semi auto choices,
with .357 bring up the revolver people. For me personally, I've always disliked the recoil impulse on .40 S&W, it's not a
pleasant round to shoot.

It's not the amount of recoil, it's the way is manifests, the nasty snappiness of it so I would likely
find 10mm similar. I've shot .44 mag, hot .357, even .500 S&W and all of them, to me, are more "pleasant" to shoot than .40
S&W. I like big calibers and big booms, it's just the way the recoil impulse goes into my arm and hand on .40 S&W, don't like it, if that makes any sense? I'm sure a recoil engineer, physicist or someone else could explain it better.

I even have a 9mm, my Astra 600, that reminds me of shooting a .40 S&W, it's a pure blowback design and it has the same kind of unpleasant bite/sting to shooting it. I was amazed the first time I shot it because it's all steel, weighs a lot and I thought that weight and mass would make it a pleasant shooter. It's not, at all, I am always amazed at how it feels when I shoot it. I like the gun historically and it's super weird looking, which is always fun but I amazed the Nazis liked the design and ordered so many from Astra. I find the big booming pistol calibers have a big recoil but it's a predictable, slow and steady push that is actually kind of fun.

 

[WrongHanded]

Well, we had the 9mm vs .45acp, then someone said "10mm anyone?" But the FBI wanted 10mm light, and so the .40 surged for a couple decades.

Whilst the .40 was doing well, no one really saw the power bump to 10mm being worthwhile. It was expensive and hard to find, not many options for firearms, and was rumored to be excessively powerful. Maybe the much slower .45acp was a better choice anyway? Well, not really, but still, a 10mm was just unnecessarily extravagant.

Now the world is going back to the punybellum, because the marketing departments said so, and all the wokeness required catering to the lowest common denominator of limp wristing nancies. But this time we're doing it in micro pistols. It's "basically just as good" because "all service cartridges are the same" and who wants to put up with recoil anyway, "shot placement is the most important thing" and probably impossible with guns that recoil. So it's back to the 9mm with all the confidence one can gather from internet hype. And all seems well, until a guy holds up his tiny little micro 9 and wonders "Is this really enough, or am I just fooling myself?"

The answer? Get a 10mm. Why? Because there are no commercially available .45 Supers.

 

[sparkyv]

Trend, fad, comeback, hasbeen or whatever, I'll be shooting the 10mm (and 40S&W) well into the foreseeable future because I reload.

I carried either a Dan Wesson Govt model or CCO model 10 mm for 20 years

Haven't we all been down the 10mm road long ago when there was so much vice in Miami?

I liked 10mm before the 40S&W decline

Dude, a lot of folks like me were well into the 10mm AUTO before it was cool, or trendy, and were well into it even before the .40S&W was introduced in 1990.

You got it and it's all about marketing and sales. If they don't come up with the new latest and greatest they lose money trying to sell the same ole calibers even though they are tried and true.

and I admit I’ve been lured by flashy and new myself.

But anyway, I got into 10mm in 2003

But this 10mm "Take 87" resurgence strikes me as a fad.

 

[Overkill870]

I like 10mm due to the versatility. A moderate load 10mm such as the HST 200gr at 1100 fps is a dream to shoot out of a 10mm handgun. Still more powerful than the hottest 40 loads that I am aware of but more comfortable and controllable due to the heavier build of a 10mm gun.

And you have the option to go with top end hardcast loads in the woods.

Discussions around 10mm typically shun the moderate loads due to being close to 40 performance. But what I think is overlooked is the performance is still pretty good and these loads are more controllable in a 10mm gun than a typical 40 gun.

 

[Buckeye63]

10mm today is more popular than ever .. tomorrow it will be more popular than today .. I don’t think its going anywhere soon …

 

[JDeere]

10mm today is more popular than ever .. tomorrow it will be more popular than today .. I don’t think its going anywhere soon …

Time will tell...10mm was popular long ago and fell off the radar for awhile. People are funny and marketing is selling well today as people eat it up...

 

[Buzznrose]

I own mostly 9MM semiauto handguns but also .45, .40, 10MM, and .380. If I had to begin eliminating calibers, the first to go would probably be a tough call between the .45 or the .40. After those two, the .380 would go before the 10MM.

If I were going back in time to advise a younger me on buying handguns, I’d tell myself to keep it simple and just buy .22, 9MM and 10MM pistols and let the rest be.

But who am I kidding… I’d probably never take that advice as I just have to learn the hard (and pricy) way!

 

[crestoncowboy]

Time will tell...10mm was popular long ago and fell off the radar for awhile. People are funny and marketing is selling well today as people eat it up...

The 10 was never as popular as it is now. Ive used a 10mm since shooting our counties issued Glock 20 around 2000. That entire time there weren't more than 3 or 4 guns at any given time. The witness was made in small batches. The kimber 10mm was made the whole time I believe. The delta was on and off. Smith 610 was on and off. The Glock 20 and 29 was always available and was easily the most issued and tried/ trusted of all the 10mms.

Now you have sig making 320 and 220. Smith making the M&P. The XD. A plethora of 1911s, Redhawks, witness, Glock.... etc.

 

[BreechFace]

The 10 was never as popular as it is now. Ive used a 10mm since shooting our counties issued Glock 20 around 2000. That entire time there weren't more than 3 or 4 guns at any given time. The witness was made in small batches. The kimber 10mm was made the whole time I believe. The delta was on and off. Smith 610 was on and off. The Glock 20 and 29 was always available and was easily the most issued and tried/ trusted of all the 10mms.

Now you have sig making 320 and 220. Smith making the M&P. The XD. A plethora of 1911s, Redhawks, witness, Glock.... etc.

You also have the Kriss Vector, Just Right Carbine, Hipoint Carbine, Hipont handgun, TNW Aero Survival Rifle, B&T APC10, CMMG Banshee, FN 510, Ruger GP100, S&W 610, and AR PCC's.

It's really on life support here.

Just look at the Ammoseek list of searches. 10mm is more requested than: .38 Special, .380 Auto, 357Mag, 44Mag. Seems to me like the 10mm is surpassing a lot of the revolver rounds that once were slated for more power out of a handgun. Now some of this is due to the older generation are less likely to use something like Ammoseek, but it's also telling a story that it is replacing much of the attention that revolver cartridges get with the audience that uses Ammoseek. And with all the 45ACP handguns out there, it's 1% back from it. Interesting enough 40S&W doesn't even make the top 20 anymore, which was my point earlier in this thread it seems like the 10mm will take it's spot in the field of handgun cartridges.

Just to put it in perspective, 10mm is third on the list for centerfire handgun cartridges:
1. 9mm Parabellum
2. 45ACP
3. 10mm

 

[crestoncowboy]

You also have the Kriss Vector, Just Right Carbine, Hipoint Carbine, Hipont handgun, TNW Aero Survival Rifle, B&T APC10, CMMG Banshee, FN 510, Ruger GP100, S&W 610, and AR PCC's.

It's really on life support here.

Just look at the Ammoseek list of searches. 10mm is more requested than: .38 Special, .380 Auto, 357Mag, 44Mag. Seems to me like the 10mm is surpassing a lot of the revolver rounds that once were slated for more power out of a handgun. Now some of this is due to the older generation are less likely to use something like Ammoseek, but it's also telling a story that it is replacing much of the attention that revolver cartridges get with the audience that uses Ammoseek. And with all the 45ACP handguns out there, it's 1% back from it. Interesting enough 40S&W doesn't even make the top 20 anymore, which was my point earlier in this thread it seems like the 10mm will take it's spot in the field of handgun cartridges.

Just to put it in perspective, 10mm is third on the list for centerfire handgun cartridges:
1. 9mm Parabellum
2. 45ACP
3. 10mm

View attachment 1133316

Yep. There are several.

As far as the ammoseek page....its still only 1.xx percent. Not exactly earth shattering. Lol. Technically its 1% more popular than 25 or 454 or 500 smith or 50 AE.....I wouldn't use that metric to build up the 10mm. Lol.

I remember buying 5k round at a time from Georgia arms and BVAC back when they were the only ones making cheap ammo for 10mm. At the time the only ammo you could find was Blazer, American eagle, Remington, Hornady custom and the higher end stuff like norma and black talons/silvertips. The choices now are much better.

Its always been a good round. If you want to carry a viable semi auto in the woods its pretty much been the ONLY round. And if I could only have one gun or one chambering I'd choose 10mm, no doubt. Makes a sufficient duty gun. Makes a sufficient hunting gun. Makes a sufficiently easy to carry ccw..... etc. Ill not part with my delta/bren/Glock/220 etc etc.

Luckily I have many guns and the 10mm just doesnt do anything that some other round does better so it really didn't see much use. I do take a deer with it every now and again.

 

[Buzznrose]

I don’t know that I agree it’s the only viable woods carry round after reading all the articles on Ammoland.com by Dean Wiengarten, but it is surely the most popular and common of the “high power” auto cartridges.

But I still want a Gen 5 .40 cal Glock.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I don’t know that I agree it’s the only viable woods carry round after reading all the articles on Ammoland.com by Dean Wiengarten, but it is surely the most popular and common of the “high power” auto cartridges.

But I still want a Gen 5 .40 cal Glock.

What else was there? I have a 44 eagle. It's huge and heavy, and doesn't perform the greatest when nasty. You had the wildey and coonan guns but those were rare and more niche.357 sig wasn't around. You could walk in any gunstore and come out with a Glock 20 and ammo. And it's the only 10mm to really be issued in any number unless you count the smith the fbi had and its not without its reports of failures. And for the states requiring 6 inch barrels there has always been. Support for a 6 inch Glock barrel. Plus many 1911 makers made 6 inch versions.

If 357 is the minimum deer cartridge like many feel then 10 when loaded like a 10 is is equal.

Like I said in another thread, many people bought a 10mm over the last 20 years because of my talking it up. All but one dumped theirs and his is a delta elite that he doesn't even shoot. So unless "woods" or "hunting " is specifically mentioned the. I don't even suggest 10mm.

 

[Overkill870]

I own and shoot multiple calibers but for serious uses I use 9mm or if I want something more powerful I go with 10mm.

Those 2 cartridges do everything I want out of a handgun.