A gun shop episode that left a bad taste in my mouth...

I can understand the owner of a gun shop not allowing a customer to buy a gun from another customer on his premises.

I can't understand yelling about it. A polite "I don't mean to be rude, but I can't allow purchases to occur under this roof that aren't in my books. If you want to do business, I'd appreciate it if you would take it outside." seems like it may have worked.

Heck, a "Ma'am, if you are uncomfortable selling that gun to a stranger, I can log it in and do a background check for a reasonable fee." would have kept everyone happy and netted a few dollars.

Some people need to express themselves in a belligerent manner. That's the way they are and he will learn a financial lesson when his customer base dries up.

Some people need to express themselves in a belligerent manner.

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Those people often find themselve alone.

That sounds like something one of the gun shop owners in my neck of the woods would do. I've only visited his store one time and that was enough for me to realize the other gun shops in town would do just fine.

I may have caught her outside instead, but that guy sounds like a real pinhead.

The shop owner was way out of line. He had an opportunity to make an offer on the gun, and declined. He has no right to stand in anyone else's way after he's declined interest, and it was a definite D-bag move on his part. OP should not have apologize. OP should have told the dude to F off, and taken his business elsewhere.

First off, I don't see how simply asking to see the gun was a breach of etiquette.
Second, even if the OP had breached etiquette, there is ZERO excuse for shouting by customer or proprietor in any circumstances.

Even if the OP made a grevious insult to the shop how does that ever excuse unprofessional and immature behavior like that? Talk about the low road.

LibShooter

I understand that folks who work in retail must suffer fools all day long. However, they must be aware of two things.

1. I don't know every law that governs your business and every rule in effect in your store. If you need to educate me, do so in a polite and courteous manner. Aside from being good business, it's good manners.

2. I don't know (or care) how many of your customers did the same dumb thing or asked the same stupid question just before I entered your store. If you can't treat every single customer with respect, you should probably find a new line of work.

A police officer is not allowed to beat up a speeder because the last seven guys he stopped were mouthy. You don't punish folks for the bad deeds of others.

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BLESS YOU SIR!!

I followed her and by the door I ask her quietly if she can show me the gun....then almost the hell broke out...the guy almost jumped out of the bench and almost yelled in front of everybody "You cannot do that in my propriety!!"

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Looking at a gun in a gunshop? Such horror! Idiot owner.

From what you say happened. i would never go back to that shop.

If he turned it down, its fair game. Luckily the shop i go to isn't a jerk like this. I was looking for an OD glock 23c for quite some time and his distributor was out of them. I was there for a Ruger 10/22 and a guy came in to sell his OD Glock 23c!.... the owner came over to me and said "Hey, if i hook you up on that Od 23 you want, are you still gonna buy that Ruger?"...

I said "yeah, why whats up"... he turned me over to the guy selling it and i bought his 23c and then i bought the ruger as well...

THAT is how a dealer should be IMO... I have spent 4-6k there this year, he knew by throwing me a $375 glock he would still make money off me. And i know thats why he is there, to make money.

From what you described, especially since the guy knows of you in a positive manner... he had no business freaking out if you ask me.

JOe

Customer service in general is hard to come by these days (sadly) and its nearly non-existent in gun shops from my experience. There is a professional way to inform a customer of your wishes and there is the rude way. Seems pretty obvious which one I want to give any of my money to.

Go try to pull that one at Cabellas or Dicks or whereever..... You might not get yelled at, but you will be asked to leave.

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That's almost correct, SSN Vet. You won't get yelled at at Cabela's or Dick's because that's but one reason why they're still in business. They control their temper tantrums and take appropriate action. If one of their counter guys started yelling, turning red in the face, drooling, spitting and generally throwing a hissy-fit:banghead: like the gun shop owner did, he'd be fired and led out the front door. The customer would get an apology and an explaination of what protocol he failed to adhere.

from Ademd :

I agree with everyone that said the owner was in the wrong. If the owner said he wasn't going to buy it and the woman was leaving anyways, you didn't do anything wrong. And you didn't even offer her money for it, you simply asked to see it (for possibly a deal later on at another location I would assume). That's his tough luck. It's also his store and he can treat people however he wants to treat them. He might lose business because of that though.

Even if he was in the right, he really didn't have to react like that. He could have asked you both nicely to do things like that off of his property. People who flip out over something like that are probably not going to provide the best customer service down the line if you ever have a problem they need to deal with or help you with. I say avoid that place.

If you were standing up at the counter trying to outbid me on a gun in my shop, I would have kicked you out. But you weren't. There's a difference.

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Exactly. Very well (& respectfully) said. Maybe other THR'rs should take note of the way this was crafted with thought and respect for both the shop owner and the customer.

HGUNHNTR : Please read the above and ponder it for more than 2 seconds.

Theres no reason to hold a lifelong grudge over a simple misunderstanding.

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Huh?!? Misunderstanding? The shop owner did a direct, purposeful & humiliating act by ranting, raving and generally losing control of himself with that display. It was certainly no "Misunderstanding"! The shop owner needed to immediately apologize in front of those same people who were in the store during his meltdown.

personal transactions can't legally occur on an FFL's premises

is the answer

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You sure about that? At one of the gunshops I frequent its common to see FTF sales occur right on the counter in the shop. As long as the guns arent owned by the FFL, or in the book, or part of a deal for the shop, he doesnt care a bit.

The owner overracted. You kept it low key, and didn't even make an offer just asked to look at it.

I understand it can be a pet peeve of shop owners and rightfully so, but its not like you were bidding against him on it. He had the first crack and passed, after that its anyones.

I used to work at a gun/pawn shop and people used to pull the move you just did every once in a while and i had to tell them to leave the premises if they wanted to conduct business. Its not even a issue of money, its a LEGAL issue and the ATF loves stuff like that to cram down your throat and try to shut you down. The guy overreacted and he had already made his offer and she was leaving so just meet her outside next time and not at the door. Most gunshops are NOT going to let you buy a firearm off a customer in the store and that should be common sense. Most of the time im really calm and tell them to please do it elsewhere but i did blow up on one guy but he F###ing deserved it. This was in late 08/09 when the obama scare was on and we couldnt get a decent black rifle in and one day a young man pulled up while i was smoking outside. He had 2 ar 15 rifles in each hand and walked up and asked if i worked here. I said yes and he told me he wanted to sell them so i asked him if i could finish my smoke and inspect them at the same time. A customer pulls up and walks toward to the kid with the 2 ar 15s and starts in on him asking if he is selling them right in front of me with my work hat on showing i obviously worked there. I told the kid to go inside with me and the other customer BLOCKED me from getting into the store and continued to make a offer to the kid. I told the customer to please move and he ignored me and finally i told him he needed to leave the premises now if he continued to act rudely. He turned and told me to f#$k off and i told him he had 5 seconds to get the hell off the property before i call the cops and he actually tried to instigate a fight over it. My boss saw what happened and walked out the door with his .45 in hand cocked and locked and politely asked if i was ok. I told him what this customer was up to and he said you need to leave if you know what is good for you. he left and i was in disbelief that the event even took place. Rule of the story is be polite and use common sense in a situation like that and remember it is NOT your shop.

Disproportionate & unnecessary response by the shop owner, IMO. I would not buy there again after that kind of outburst.

I don't think of purchases as 'buying'. I think of it as 'voting' with my dollars. Company makes a good product, I 'vote' for them. A shop offers good service & reasonable prices, I 'vote' for them as well. If that happened to me, I would 'vote' for another business with my cash.

Its not even a issue of money, its a LEGAL issue and the ATF loves stuff like that to cram down your throat and try to shut you down.

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Can anyone explain why it is a legal issue? A couple people have said that it is, and one poster has explained how his gun shop allows it. So, whats up?

If I missed it, please direct me to the post #.

Based upon many replies, it appears that often "tempers" are lost in the moment. Ironic, huh? Civil language - or worse - is not subordinate to its intent.

The nice thing about arguments is that both parties are right and that both parties are wrong: it's a matter of perception. Prudence would dictate that the truth lies somewhere in the middle...

We DON"T know the shop-keeper's story, but we're quick to condemn...or we KNOW the OP's story, and likewise, we're quick to condemn.

It's difficult to draw a meaningful and reasonable conclusion from a one-sided story.

Is this not what we complain about happening in the news on a daily basis?

Just my $.02

YMMV

Bubba613 said:

He was out of bounds.
He had already refused to buy the gun. You weren't making an offer on it, merely asking to see it. Had you wanted to pursue it, you could have told her to meet you outside.
Sounds like someone over-reacted.

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+1.

I would have apologized to the gun store owner, and asked the lady to show it to me in the parking lot.

And never given him business again.

gun stores suck,thats why i generally dont even step foot in one. they're overpriced jerks that almost never have what you are actually looking for....and if they do its overpriced. sounds like the guy was a jerk,he didnt even offer to buy it....he had no right to do that at all. its not like he gave a price and you offered more,screw them,i wouldnt set foot in that store. go buy your chiappa at the other store and save some money.

I would have apologized to the gun store owner, and asked the lady to show it to me in the parking lot.

And never given him business again.

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All but the apology. Such folks are too ignorant to accept a sincere apology (as in this case).

Hello friends and neighbors // I prefer to do business with people who respond not react.

I have almost made the same mistake in Penn. Luckily my Dad was there to slow me down.

The GS owner offered an older lady $40.00 for Remington 552 Speedmaster(around here a>$200.00 rifle). I almost reacted a bit myself, and I'm sure the look on my face gave her pause. She turned him down and I started to follow her out but this was my Dads local GS so I stopped, much to his relief. We talked about it later and agreed this happens all the time I am just not privy to the transaction.

At least now you have a better idea of the quality of person behind the counter.
There might be better bargins in the parking lot than in the store. You might want to print up a Face to Face transaction card (this is legal in S.C.) and keep frequenting the area but not the store.
I frequent seven GS or Pawn shops and only one of them is over the top in price and attitude. I would probably not even follow someone into the parking lot at the other six stores, maybe slip the seller my phone # if the firearm was something I'm looking for. At the one with attitude I'd follow the seller right out and investigate what they had and if they had others.

You might want to print up a Face to Face transaction card

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What is a "Face-to-Face card"? Is it just a personal information card stating that you are a gun enthusiest and would like to see any guns that the person has for sale? If that's it, it sounds like a great idea and a good icebreaker.

He owns the business and he should have politely said that he does not allow that on his premises and to please take it outside. Yelling and screaming is completely uncalled for. You did not break any law.

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While it is not illegal to make inquiries on/in the premises of an FFL...

If I recall correctly (and I may not be), I think it is illegal to make a transaction on/in the premises of an FFL dealer, meaning between two people who happen to be in the shop at the same time.

Any deal like that has to be off the premises of said FFL (if I recall correctly, that is).

I'm reminded of the old saying:

"You catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"