Caracal F & C: Pics
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The designer of these is Wilhelm Bubits, a master pistol innovator who developed the Steyr series of hanguns and was working at Glock when a certain curtain rod manufacturer "designed" the Glock 17.
Connect the dots, if you will...
Connect the dots, if you will...
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GunNut
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Slips right into the slots in the grip of the F, there is a spot at the bottom and top of the grip where it attaches.
PercyShelley
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FWIW, the size of the booth and the volume of advertising at SHOT suggested that Caracal is interested in a splashy, big entrance into the US market.
fatcat4620
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You do know that by this train of thought glock just copied HK right ? epic failOften imitated but never duplicated! Smith & Wesson even got sued with their first attempt.....I was just connecting the dots...
ExMachina
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such a great point. evaluating technology by focusing on who did it first and ignoring innovation and refinements would still have us all driving Model T fords (or whatever "first" car Ford copied)
what Caracal (and others) are trying to do is produce a handgun that preserves the best of what has been established, while adding to the design at the weakest points.
there's nothing wrong with that.
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GunNut
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Funny how the guys who are dead set in their ways with the guns that they currently have, come into a thread about a different gun and find a way to dog on it without ever trying one.
My Glock works, as does my M&P, heck even the XD's worked great too; but i'm still willing to give another gun a try to see if it does something better than the others.
I bet we could all get back and forth to work/play with the same vehicle too.
My Glock works, as does my M&P, heck even the XD's worked great too; but i'm still willing to give another gun a try to see if it does something better than the others.
I bet we could all get back and forth to work/play with the same vehicle too.
ExMachina
Member
thank God! anybody duplicating a Glock is duplicating a design that is nearly 30 years old and one that is still far from perfect.
"stood the test of time?"--no, more like stayed beyond it's welcome.
i've owned Glocks. they're fine. but they've got a lot of problems. ever wonder why there are sooo many aftermarket products for Glocks?--it's cuz Glocks have a lot of flaws that need fixin'
if you like Glock then great--you can choose to buy one. lotta people still like Glock and don't mind that the bandwagon they're jumping on only knows how to play one tune
dcarch
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Five (monopoly) bucks says this thread gets shut down by the end of the day.
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GunNut
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If people would only reply to the thread if they were interested in the gun or had questions it would be great, but for some reason it always turns into a "my guns better than this gun" or "why did they have to reinvent the wheel".
I have a Glock G22, Glock G19, a Smith M&P and most recently - a Caracal F.
Frankly - for less money, less parts, better ergos, a better trigger [better than the Smith and a bit better than the Glock], lower bore axis - I am sold on the Caracal. When I first shot it - I was immediately more accurate with it. Generally - it takes a bit for me to get used to new pistol but this one feels so great to shoot. I have shot much of the cheap Wally world ammo through it without any issues. It also handles the premioum SD loads.
There is nothing wrong with the Glocks but I personally think this is a better pistol. I certainly am not a fanboy of any one brand and I like the variety of different pistol platforms. I am considering the C model and cetainly would consider the SC model if they were imported.
Now that there is a new import company handling the Caracal - I believe you will see more of them being offered up.
I paid $450.00 for mine new...I see some now for $477.00.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/01/31/caracal-pistol-best-new-handgun-for-2012/
Frankly - for less money, less parts, better ergos, a better trigger [better than the Smith and a bit better than the Glock], lower bore axis - I am sold on the Caracal. When I first shot it - I was immediately more accurate with it. Generally - it takes a bit for me to get used to new pistol but this one feels so great to shoot. I have shot much of the cheap Wally world ammo through it without any issues. It also handles the premioum SD loads.
There is nothing wrong with the Glocks but I personally think this is a better pistol. I certainly am not a fanboy of any one brand and I like the variety of different pistol platforms. I am considering the C model and cetainly would consider the SC model if they were imported.
Now that there is a new import company handling the Caracal - I believe you will see more of them being offered up.
I paid $450.00 for mine new...I see some now for $477.00.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/01/31/caracal-pistol-best-new-handgun-for-2012/
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GunNut
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The only problems that I have heard are about the manufacture wanting to price the gun above Glock/M&P up near or just above the XDm.
No way will it compete if the price is $600-ish, it really needs to be just slightly below Glock pricing to gain any kind of market share.
Bubbits considered the steyr an improvement on the glock. An interview I saw had him basically saying he considered the caracal an opportunity to keep evolving the design.
The steyr is not a copy of the glock it is an improvement. I have multiple glocks. I think the steyr compares very very favorably to them. The only advantage I give a glock 19 vs a steyr m9 is that glock is more established and therefor has more aftermarket support. I'm not selling my glocks but I wouldn't dismiss others out of hand either.
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GunNut
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Those are unregulated prices, basically clearing out inventory from Waffenwerks. That is by no means the price that they will be selling once Caracal-Usa is back involved.
I only paid $395 each for my C & F, they are definitely worth much more but who will pick an unknown over a Glock or M&P for the same price?
Meh. It looks like a Glock with a messed up grip. If the Steyr was the first evolution, and this thing the latest, it looks like Bubbits backpedaled in the esthetics department. Right back to where he started. I'd want one about as much as I want a Steyr. Kinda, sorta, but mainly as a collector. It's sure to be scarce when it's competing with M&P and XD. Go USA! (and Croatia!)
An even better example is the iPhone. The third party accessory market is into the billlions a year. I was at the CES show this year, and it felt like half the show was iPhone covers.
Nope. It's obviously cuz they're very popular. Why are there so many aftermarket parts for a Ruger 10/22? If there were so many aftermarket products because the gun was deficient, then the whole market woulda crashed years ago, and everyone would be spending the money on XD's instead of Glock-fixer-doodads.
An even better example is the iPhone. The third party accessory market is into the billlions a year. I was at the CES show this year, and it felt like half the show was iPhone covers.
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Hunter125
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Held a Caracal, I believe it was an F, at a gun show last weekend. I can't say I was overly impressed, but I haven't had a chance to shoot one yet. I suppose that could change everything.
I am not a Glock fan, but that's a personal preference thing.
I am not a Glock fan, but that's a personal preference thing.
Where can these be had for $400.
If they go up above the cost of glock I don't see them doing real well. It takes a lot of hype (see HK) to get people to pay more than that for a polymer pistol that doesn't really do anything the others wont.
I think pricing (and horrible marketing) really hurt the steyr.
If they go up above the cost of glock I don't see them doing real well. It takes a lot of hype (see HK) to get people to pay more than that for a polymer pistol that doesn't really do anything the others wont.
I think pricing (and horrible marketing) really hurt the steyr.
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GunNut
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Long Mountain Outfitters in NV had them for $395 plus shipping, but may be out.
Centerfire Systems has them around $450, seen some others in the $450-500 range.
Centerfire Systems has them around $450, seen some others in the $450-500 range.
As for the Steyr being the "next evolution" of the Glock, here's a video of the innards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmHO3hkKWA&feature=related
Interesting things I learned are:
1. Steyr M9 doesn't have a firing pin safety
2. You need a punch to do a basic field strip
3. When you take the action out of the frame, a button and spring pop out the right side. And the slide stop and spring fall out the other side.
4. Then, according to the author of this video, the sear mechanism is "somewhat more complicated than a clock."
I'm curious how the Caracal stacks up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmHO3hkKWA&feature=related
Interesting things I learned are:
1. Steyr M9 doesn't have a firing pin safety
2. You need a punch to do a basic field strip
3. When you take the action out of the frame, a button and spring pop out the right side. And the slide stop and spring fall out the other side.
4. Then, according to the author of this video, the sear mechanism is "somewhat more complicated than a clock."
I'm curious how the Caracal stacks up.
ExMachina
Member
^^^^Caracals field strip w/o tools (as does the Steyr--that video is misleading).
Caracals have a FP block.
I have no idea how the Caracal's sear mechanism compares to a clock...
Caracals have a FP block.
I have no idea how the Caracal's sear mechanism compares to a clock...
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GunNut
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Just because it's an evolution of some other gun doesn't mean it should be simpler.
Easier to work on a car today or 50 years ago?
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