SP101 or Glock 29 for bear defense

Revolvers do not hold up to dirty outdoors conditions as well as a quality semi either. Glocks are especially good about taking abuse that will shut down a revolver.

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Good Lord, why don't we all just put our revolvers in a glass case and leave them there. Sorry but this is utter nonsense.

ACTUALLY, it's 5 of one, and 11 of the other.

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Actually it'll be 2-3rds of either, if you're lucky.

...you cannot discount 5 rounds vs 10-15 rounds...

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If you really think you'll be able to get off 10-15rds, even wild unaimed fire, before a bear is upon you, you're in for a rude awakening.

I can shoot 17 rounds of 9mm in my glock faster than I can shoot 6 double action out of my GP100.

I can get 6 rounds of aimed fire from a holster in right around 2 seconds. El prez drill. Two rounds in a revolver would be pushing it in the same time frame.

I'm not advocating 9mm for bear, this is just the comparison I've made.

If a bear is charging me I never want to hear that empty click. I'll carry as many rounds in my first mag as possible.

If the 10mm and the .357 are close to equal I would take the higher capacity hands down.

These bear discussions are pointless.

On the one hand you have the guys who hunt with handguns and understand that you can take a wild animal down with one precise shot.

On the other hand you have the guys who get their gun training by playing Call of Duty and who believe in spray and pray and double tapping everything.

I carry a revolver over a semi auto in the woods for the simple reason that it's much much cheaper to reload for and practice with 357 and 44 than 10mm.

Charging bear rules out

one precise shot.

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At that point you do all you can to change his mind. As many rounds as you can on target. Theres no comparison between a SP101 and the Glock 29 as far as speed shooting.

One is an undersized revolver shooting hot .357 loads that hurt your hand and the other has the feel of a full sized handgun with hot 10mm loads.

Speed and capacity are your best friend when you don't have a friend to shoot and leave to the bear. If ballistics are even.

I'm not trying to defend the SP101. I believe that it's an undersized 357 and trying to shoot heavy magum loads with it is not a good idea.

I agree with CraigC about getting 2-3 shots maximum. Every report I've seen about real bear attacks involved 3 shots or less, including this one http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/article_9f6b7326-78b7-11de-aab0-001cc4c002e0.html

So, in my opinion, carrying 15 rounds is useless for bears. If you can shoot a Glock better than a revolver, then go for it. But when people say that they need 15 rounds to stop a bear, they really don't understand the situation.

My take is slightly different, I'd go with a shorter barrel 3" SP101 with the large Crimson Trace grip. The extra barrel length doesn't add that much energy, BB's web site shows expected muzzle velocity for ammo out of several barrel lengths. The shorter barrel will carry better and the larger grip will give a more secure grip plus the advantage of the laser for aiming with eyes locked on the target as I have to believe they would be at such a time.

I have SRH .454 Alaskan with a CT grip that has been bought specifically for carry in Alaska someday. It is incredibly fast on target and IMHO an SP set up similarly would be an outstanding lightweight option.

Heavy loads in my 4" SP101 don't hurt my hand, with the Hogue rubber grips on the Ruger. Plus, it is much more accurate than with the tiny factory grips.
The F/O front sight is unmatched for quick pick-up in any daylight.
There isn't a Glock anywhere on the planet which can outcompete a Ruger revolver for reliability. Especially since the SP is stainless.

Bear

I have met a Montana Elk Guide that carried a pistol for Bear protection at all times. Not a .44 mag revolver. He carried a Glock 10mm stoked with stiff loads. I would prefer the Glock myself. Especially having seen a Bear charge my wife in Yosemite Nat. Park. The Bear covered 30-40 yards faster than I covered ten. He turned aside at about 10 feet away and then stopped. The Park Rangers we later met, tracking this Bear (he had already been collared and deported once), had shotguns and pistols. I believe you'll need all the fire power available and a lot of luck to actually stop a charge.

Browns are possible, but I see blacks much more often. Again, I know that a more powerful gun is much better, but I would not take a larger gun with me.

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Yeah, I worked in the National Park System out west for a while, and ran into a lot of AK fishing guides from your part of the country. The .44 and .454 was all they carried for shore duty fishing.

Either way, lots of practice is always ideal, but between those 2 models the 29 is ideal. Ammo. $$ is the downfall. PM comin to ya.

Went through the same thing a few months ago. Already owned an SP101. But felt I needed more capacity. In a tense situation, I could see myself missing 5 times. And I doubt there'd be any grace period for a reload. I wound up with a G20SF because I happened across a killer deal. Love it.

Tuckerdog1

It still baffles me the people who depend on magazine capacity in the wild. I think large capacity magazines have become something of a grown man's security blanket for some folks.

AKrunner, one aspect of your decision that has not been discussed extensively is weight of the firearm. I do a lot of fast backcountry hiking and weight is a real concern. I have a Glock 30 (same size/weight as a G29) and I never carry it when going light because it is heavy and bulky.
I'll tell you what I do carry and what I also carry as my backup/finisher when hunting is a S&W 386 Mtn. Lite. http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithandwesson/smithandwessonmodel386.asp

It is a 3" L-framed .357 with a 7 shot Ti cylinder and it weighs 19 oz. empty and about 26-27 oz loaded (which is what a G29 weighs empty) with 7rds of heavy. 180gr Buffalo Bore are extremely stout to shoot but not unbearable and they penetrate like mad.
S&W doesn't make them any more but they pop up on Gunbroker form time to time.

Cycle Troll, that is exactly why I went with the 29 over the 20, and instead of a GP100, or something similar. The weight per round of platform, for me, lead me to the 29sf. I have shot light weight .357s and I can't control them after the first shot. Follow up is poor. Follow up with my 29sf is within my comfort level.

Backpacking is about weight compromises, so the question is where do you want to compromise. And while it goes beyond the posters question I did have concerns with more than one predator at a time in the back country, specifically wolves and two legged folk. With that added consideration I wanted enough capacity to handle more than one threat.

Without the caveat of the need to handle multiple threats, now having a Glock 29, I would make the same decision again, if I was just dealing with bears. Its a really handy size, fits my hand well, and carries well. I am by no means a glock fan. I didn't want to like the 29 because of that very reason, but I did.

If you can shoot them both and see what you can put on target better, repeatedly. For me it was the 10mm in the 29 frame.

AKMtnRunner said:

Thanks JScott for the thoughtful response. Yeah, I know they are not ideal tools but when I'm running in bear country up here in Alaska it is either these or no 3rd line of defense.

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If you are running around up in Alaska, both choices are pretty lightweight compared to the bears up there. I carry my SP101 daily so it is no big deal to keep it with me as a BUG when out in the woods, but that is all I would consider either of your choices.

My primary woods gun is my Ruger SRH in .44 magnum with my BB loads. My preferred bear defense is my .444 Marlin but that is not something you can ordinary take in all situations.

If all you have is the above, take both, they are really evenly matched. If you want real bear defense, consider something else.

RalphS said:

I'm not trying to defend the SP101. I believe that it's an undersized 357 and trying to shoot heavy magum loads with it is not a good idea.

I agree with CraigC about getting 2-3 shots maximum. Every report I've seen about real bear attacks involved 3 shots or less, including this one http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/article_9f6b7326-78b7-11de-aab0-001cc4c002e0.html

So, in my opinion, carrying 15 rounds is useless for bears. If you can shoot a Glock better than a revolver, then go for it. But when people say that they need 15 rounds to stop a bear, they really don't understand the situation.

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The SP101 is a great little gun that does weigh at least 25 oz depending on the type. Not a fun gun to shoot high powered loads, but it handles full loads well. I find the recoil on my SP101 a step below my .44 magnum. Both are not in the "fun" category to shoot, but quite manageable.

$30 bear spray. $5 bear bell to avoid surprising it. Both handguns offer less tthan ideal defense. They are equally capable or incapable. Saw a story of a hunter stopping a charging bear after 5 shots from his 7mm magnum rifle!!! Good luck with a pistol

Your sig suggests you are a mountain runner around here. That necessitates something real light weight. Or someone fat and slow like me to act as bear fodder. Personally between those two I'd go with the SP-101 with 180 hardcasts. The round is controllable in that revolver and is better than nothing. The little Glock 10mm's are notorious for being difficult to handle. Some do like them, but there are a LOT of 20 or 29's on the secondary market from folks who find them brutal. Usually one a week crop up on the swap and sell. In contrast, folks don't tend to part with SP's or Speed Sixes. The difference in power between the heavy loaded .357 and the 10mm isn't enough to justify the loss of ergonomics and controllability you get going to the Glock. I don't hate them, but I think that frame is far better with a lower powered round. A Glock in 9mm is a joy to shoot. A Glock in 10mm is something else entirely.

Fire off 100 rounds from each, full power, and I think the decision will make itself for you.

For toting, try one of the AK Sportsmen chest rigs. It makes the weight go away and keeps the piece handy.

Revolvers do not hold up to dirty outdoors conditions as well as a quality semi either.

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? We're talking about a RUGER here, not some antique Colt. You could run it over with a truck and it would still work.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Neither is ideal. Choose whichever one you're most proficient with and load it with the heaviest, non-expanding projectiles available.

Reload speed is irrelevant.

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It's really six of one and up to 16 of the other. I'd opt for the 16. I won't bike with a pistol attached to me; don't think running with either would be too comfortable, but the huge edge goes to the Glock. The chances of the Glock's malfunctioning when you need it is somewhere between infinitesimal and zero, but probably a lot closer to zero.

I'd take the G29 with reliable ammo and probably use a G20 mag with an A&G sleeve. I wouldn't bother with the slightly-longer G29 barrel. Where does one get a slightly-longer G29 barrel, anyhow?

Doesn't the SP101 hold only five?

AKMtnRunner said:

Browns are possible, but I see blacks much more often. Again, I know that a more powerful gun is much better, but I would not take a larger gun with me.

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Well that doesn't make sense at all. Why did you start this thread then if you already knew the/your answer? Since you have in your mind a rigid binomial, it shouldn't be that difficult for you to try to decide which is "larger".

It kind of makes perfect sense. The guy is looking for a gun that will fit his lifestyle and give him some measure of defense.
Given the choice, I wouldn't want to confront an angry large bear with either, but I'd sure take the Glock or SP-101 over my fingernails.

^
I understand this. But for the OP to say "I would not take a larger gun with me" just seems odd. Just figure out what is the "larger", perhaps.

He means the usual rifle or shotgun. For mountain runners, that's not an option. In fact most of them go unarmed from what I've seen. Which isn't a huge deal if you're running up Bird Ridge on the weekends with hundreds of other people, but can be an issue if you're breaking new ground in some back country.

I have a similar problem.

I'd suggest trying one of these holsters:
http://www.pistolwear.com/

It might expand your options.

Can you use a shoulder rig while running?

I can't help but think something like a S&W scandium would be a better fit, due to it's lighter weight.

I find the Glock loaded to be 32-34 oz loaded.
SP 101 25 oz unloaded, with a short barrel. Add 5 rounds, maybe an once or two?

I'd probably go with a 329 if I was going into brown bear territory:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57770_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

It's big, but lighter then both you are considering. Also I'm sure you can find one used in Alaska, after someone has touched off full power 44 mag loads out of it, and realize recoil is at a whole nother speed.

I'd first figure out what holster I was going to run with, and then decide on the weight I can carry.

What holster setup are you planning to use?

Your question is fascinating, since I haven't come up with a real good answer for my own needs. I don't have brown bear in the mix, and tend to settle on a S&W 360PD for carry in the holster linked to above, or a PM9 Kahr.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

The Kahr PM9 loaded weighs 18 oz. Another possibility might be the PM 40.
It would get you within 200 fps of the 10MM, in a package the size of the Kahr PM9, and 18 oz.

Kahr has come out with a .45 ACP version of their line, the PM45
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM45-Black.asp

The flat, concealable gun, 6 shot capacity, light weight, under 23 oz. loaded,
and the power of .45 ACP in a flat nosed, non-expanding bullet, +P as well, make it a possible solution for your problem.

Hand size is important as well. Do you have small or large hands? Does a Glock 29 feel comfortable?
If you have to death grip the SP 101 it's going to be difficult to shoot it well. Likewise if the Glock is too big for your hands.

The good news on the revolver is you can change the grip size.

Good luck with this.

Let us know what you decide on, and why.