Bear defense pistols: .357 or .45acp. Pick one!

American_Fusilier

American_Fusilier

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So I know this discussion has been done to death, sorry...

But I have a more specific question.

I live in the Midwest, and the only bears we have are skiddish black bears. I probably don't  need a bear defense gun other than my carry gun (9mm). But I am curious, I have a 1911 in .45apc and an EAA Vindicator (4" barrel) in .357 mag, what do you guys think is best between the two for bears?

If I lived in Alaska or some place where there were grizzlies, I'd carry a 10mm or .44 mag.

I went camping in Yellowstone a few years back and I took the 357 (I didn't have the 1911 at that point).

The 357 is a proven cartridge, but with the 45 you get a bigger hole and two more rounds...

Without buying a new gun, what would you guys pick and why?
 
Barrel length and a caliber that benefits from such = energy required that is more that human self defense. Since 44mag/10 is off the table then only a 6+-inch barrel on a 357mag remains. I love 45ACP/GAP and today ammo comes in +P but penetration is key and many shots may be moot when the goal is only one, well placed before time runs out. Please someone stop, correct my Texas reasoning that may have been fried by 2 back-back Tucson-like summers here!
 
American_Fusilier said:
I live in the Midwest, and the only bears we have are skiddish black bears.
...
The 357 is a proven cartridge, but with the 45 you get a bigger hole and two more rounds...
...
Click to expand...
Which one are you more comfortable and accurate with, shooting quickly? (6 versus 8+1)

There are good hardcast loads for 45 ACP, that penetrate very nicely and most skiddish (small-ish) black bears are not tanks.

Truthfully, you can probably get away with just bear spray and an airhorn most of the time. Keep the gun handy for the, just in case factor.

But it's your hide and your decision.
 
Thinking about this post. And my woods carry. I carry a 10mm 1911. With hard cast bullets. And my Ruger SBH with hard cast. With it being single action. Follow up shots if needed would be slow. Im thinking about switching to my Taurus tracker 357 with hot cast loads. It's SA/DA and holds 7 rounds.
 
I believe the theory is velocity is needed to break thru hard bones of bears to get the penetration. .45 is about as low as velocity gets and magazine capacity is pretty limited unless you have a Glock or FN FNX, so I think an 8 shot .357 is the better choice here.

I'd rather have 10mm tho, but I understand that not everyone reloads and .357 and .45 ACP are easier for some to get.
 
We have a lot of black bears around here and Ive worked and played in the woods most of my life. We always ran across at least a couple each year, and they were almost always hauling ass south when they saw us. Ive always just carried the gun I normally carry and never really gave it a second thought. I wouldn't get to wound up about it.

Now, if were were in big bear country, Id most likely just have another, more appropriate gun in a quickly accessed open holster along, and just deal with keeping up with the added maintenance on it.

I took this in the backyard a couple of years back. Thats about 35 yards from the house. It was gone back into the corn a few seconds after I snapped that too.

00-DboCy8WJYzQR_q_dc-F5BNyntOLdWDP5ZdA7LI-ODz-oZYCjg6Zs3Ye6Okg0Byeo
 
I carry a 45 ACP revolver as my edc. I would select the same cartridge for walking in my woods or yours. Because it is a revolver, I can use bullet profiles that are not usable in the 1911 or other self loaders.

Such as these,

IMG_7969.jpeg

On the left is my every day bullet, SAECO 453, a 240 grain full wadcutter.

The middle bullet is a 260 grain rnfp that has been sent to me for me to try and the one on the right is the Arsenal 45-250 fwc bullet, also to test.

None of these are hard cast. They do not need to be. To prevent leading you need the right size bullet and a good lube. It sounds simple but it takes some tweaking to get results.

Good luck!

Kevin
 
American_Fusilier said:
So I know this discussion has been done to death, sorry...

But I have a more specific question.

I live in the Midwest, and the only bears we have are skiddish black bears. I probably don't  need a bear defense gun other than my carry gun (9mm). But I am curious, I have a 1911 in .45apc and an EAA Vindicator (4" barrel) in .357 mag, what do you guys think is best between the two for bears?

If I lived in Alaska or some place where there were grizzlies, I'd carry a 10mm or .44 mag.

I went camping in Yellowstone a few years back and I took the 357 (I didn't have the 1911 at that point).

The 357 is a proven cartridge, but with the 45 you get a bigger hole and two more rounds...

Without buying a new gun, what would you guys pick and why?
Click to expand...
If you'd carry a 10mm against grizzlies, then a .357Magnum would be plenty sufficient against black bear, almost overkill. They're roughly equivalent, don't let anyone fool you into thinking the 10mm approaches .44 Magnum. In either case, shot placement will be the difference in your survival.

Personally, I want something at least .40 caliber against either one, just for the available bullet weights, and would prefer a magnum for its penetrating ability at a greater range than a non-magnum of the same size. Here in the Appalachians, most of the bear hunters I knew used a .44 magnum lever action to hunt black bear.
 
I like the heavy for caliber hardcast loads made by Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and others. From a ballistics perspective a 200 gr hardcast from a 357 mag revolver at around 1300 fps wins. But between the 2 I like a 255 gr 45 ACP at around 900 fps better.

It's not the ballistics, but the package. My Smith M&P 45 holds 10+1 rounds which is almost double the capacity. It is a lighter, more compact package that I shoot more accurately. And I can mount a light on it for use at night when camping.
 
Take the 9mm unless its capacity is less than your 45 ACP or 357 magnum. Of those three there is not enough ballistics differences to trump capacity. I would want the one with the highest capacity and easies reload of the three.
 
American_Fusilier said:
That I do know. We didn't see any when we were out there. In fact, I've never even seen a bear in the wild...
Click to expand...
I've seen lots of black bear in the wild and a Grizzly I saw in British Columbia makes a black bear look like a puppy. If you saw one that size you'd be nervous as hell regardless of what you had in your hand.
 
American_Fusilier said:
That I do know. We didn't see any when we were out there. In fact, I've never even seen a bear in the wild...
Click to expand...
As long as you aren't purposely A.) leaving out food or garbage, and B.) no one drives one to you while you're hunting, you probably never will see one. Those two scenarios are the only two times in my life I've ever seen a black bear.
 
Of all the black bears I’ve seen in the wild 90 percent of them were about 25’ up in a tree. Almost like a 300 lbs squirrel ;) Most people look on the ground for them and usually walk right under them.

There’s a momma and a cub in this tree IMG_5115.png
 
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