Terrorist take over mall what would you do?

Really been thinking about posting this..

In a situation like that here in the US, i believe all here would take action but there are things you must take into consideration.

Who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. There may be calm assailants early into the attack, frantic innocent people will be running around like ants.

Aaaaaand, you must be ready for the arrival of LEO and BE SURE to identify yourself as a good guy and comply as much as you can.

Id run for the truck gun.

Save yourself if possible, your family needs you more.

Me personally. I would get the family out. If I'm on my own then I would still try to leave.

If they are on my way to the exit then I'll draw and shoot then try to leave.

If they make it in such a way that I can't leave then I'll probably look for an airduct or cardboard box to hide in where they more than likley won't look for me

My luck I would be the guy not leaving.

I'd try to get out. Die Hard was a great movie but the reality is a lone man is going to get pinned down by fire and then flanked and killed.

I would really have to have a cat bird seat to know who is who.
Seems the chance to shoot a good guy would be way high.

I might lift my skirt and run like heck. Then again I may stay where I am if cornered or it is safer to stay. If I have a ham radio with me I will be feeding all the info I can to the police along with the "don't shoot the guy in the green jacket and blue cap in front of Bucket o' Porn on floor 3!".

After that I would be trying to find other armed good guy and slap together a makeshift team and set up a perimeter. Move all unarmed folks to rear of store or safe place (while searching some (profiling)). If you are a suspicious looking type and my gut tells me to then you get searched. Then and only then would I try to be a better observer for the police. I will not hunt the bad guys but let them or the police come to me.

This assumes right place right time. Like trapped on 3rd floor where I might have to fight my way down. One massive option almost bigger than a gun is radio communications as I know 911 will be clogged but I know I can get 1 to 5 ham radio operators to the command post. I would also turn on my tiny voice recorder.

So many options! Each decision must be made on "what is safest for me" formula. I don't want to be the dead guy on youtube in front of the "Bucket O' Porn" shop.

If I have family with me things change.

I have to remember the bad guys came with a plan, I'm making it up as I go along. Also can I trust the CCW holder to be one of the good guys?!?

No matter the case if I see someone taking folks out with a weapon and tossing grenades then he gets my undivided attention. Then I keep moving.

As a rule I avoid gun free killing zones.

From the terrorists perspective (longer response than I planned, good though exercise) I would have terrorist buddies on every floor and radio comms. I would try and kill as many as fast as possible before the police show up with an active shooter force. After killing all those in the open I would start taking out those hiding in stores with grenades or auto weapon fire. I just heard one of the shooters in Kenya was an english speaker. At all costs I would avoid GunKid!

A British ex-Royal Marine was said to have gone in a dozen times with only a pistol tucked into his waistband and rescued 100 people.

http://www.examiner.com/article/arm...-royal-marine-the-unsung-hero-kenyan-massacre

Terrorist take over mall what would you do?
I've been really swept up with the Westgate Mall terrorist attack in Kenya. I'm wondering what everyone would do if they were carrying in a situation like that. Multiple crazed radicals who expect death and aren't afraid of it, armed with a rifle and explosives, all you have is a handgun.
Terrorist take over mall what would you do?

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First consideration is that if they are a group of terrorists, there is a very good chance that they are NOT crazed. They are likely engaged in a consciously planned operation. Assuming that they are crazed potentially would be a serious underestimation.

A British ex-Royal Marine was said to have gone in a dozen times with only a pistol tucked into his waistband and rescued 100 people.

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First, unlike the vast majority of American CCW people, he was a Royal Marine. There is the very real possibility that he has had urban warfare training, anti-terrorist training, and/or hostage rescue training. Second, no report was made that his gun was used to engage the terrorists. In other words, he could have accomplished his task completely unarmed. He sneeked them out of the mall. He did not fight them out of the mall with his pistol.

Not only was he a former Royal Marine, I noticed this comment...

The British military regularly train and operate in East Africa, often using Kenya as a base for tracking UK citizens suspected of being involved in terrorist activities in Somalia and Kenya.

A large number of former soldiers continue to live in the country after their service ends, working as security personnel for private agencies and the Kenyan government.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-save-100-people-from-terrorists-8836459.html

So not only may this former Royal Marine have anti-terrorist training, he may be actively be employed in security or anti-terrorist endeavors locally.

I would do good to save myself and any companions with me and avoid engaging the terrorists, security or police. But my inner Walter Mitty wants to be this guy, as pointed out by Blackstone in Post #8:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dgun-saved-100-lives-terrorists-ran-amok.html
"British hero of the mall massacre: Ex Royal Marine with a handgun saved 100 lives as terrorists ran amok", Daily Mail, 23 Sep 2013.

A "former marine" and "ex soldier was having coffee at the Westgate mall when it was attacked by Islamists on Saturday." He was armed and escorted about 12 groups of people out of the mall, going back and coming out.

Since he may still be employed by the Kenyan or British gov't or private security, his name and face are redacted in all reports.

I'd only use my gun to get myself/ family to the nearest exit. The other people in the mall that choose not to be armed....well, it sucks to be them.

First of all I must point out that in spite of what we might like to think, terrorists who operate in concert (the Westgate team, the 9-11 hijackers, etc.) are not crazed.

Crazy people cannot be trained, controlled, led...in short, they cannot be counted on to work together to carry out a plan. The may be radicals, but they are quite sane and deeply dedicated to their cause: so dedicated, as we readily observe, that they anticipate dying in the pursuit of their mission. People who have never been that dedicated to anything can easily interpret their behavior as crazed, but it is not.

Regardless of whether I was carrying, if I were alone in a mall (a rare occurrence) and something like this went down, my deepest desire would be to remain alive. I'm no coward, but nor am I dedicated so strongly to rescuing fellow innocents from this situation that I'm prepared to die in a futile effort to save them. I know my capabilities, and I trust my own judgement. I can think and respond. I cannot know any of this about any of the other people being held. If people I love were with me, my focus would shift to their survival. I cannot say how I would accomplish that because the situation would be fluid. Of course, it would be harder to protect someone else than to protect myself.

Remaining alive might involve escaping, or it might be a matter of staying hidden. It's impossible to be sure even for those involved, so from my chair in Virginia I can't even begin to know.

I haven't been in a mall in years .

I don't think I'd do anything different than what anyone else is saying.

The only thing I feel compelled to add to this thread is, if you think think kind of thing isn't coming to America you're the on who is crazed.

Oh and the whole I'd get an armed team and start searching other patrons isn't going to end well.

We've actually had a lot of conversations about "active shooter" and even terrorist attacks in public places like malls.

The important factors seem to be:
1) to identify that there is a situation
2) Move immediately to the closest best cover you can find, out of primary lanes of view, perpendicular to the rush of the crowd if possible. Get to a breathing spot to gain a moment to Orient and Decide.
3) Figure out where the situation is happening, relative to you
4) Figure out which way you need to go to move away from the trouble
5) Observe that the way out is indeed safe (you aren't being herded into other danger)
6) Move you and those you're responsible for out of the line of fire and off the premises as quietly and swiftly as possible. (Service areas, out of the retail/public spaces. Go where the employees are disappearing to if you can.)
7) Failing to find a safe exit, find the most out-of-the way and defensible location you can to keep out of harm's way until the situation is resolved.

At least, that's my theory. Bringing attention to myself would be very, very low on my list.

I've known folks who, armed with handguns, confronted people armed with AKs and grenades as long ago as Tet of 1968. Usually it's a losing proposition... breaking contact and escaping is likely to be a better approach than engaging in a protracted firefight, especially in a crowded environment.

I think if I had the chance I would try and flee.

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That's the only wise option.

It doesn't matter what hi-cap handgun you have in whatever caliber. You're up against multiple terrorists armed with automatic rifles. Trying to take them on will just result in your name being added to the list of the deceased. You're not the SWAT Team and Rambo was just a movie.

And what if your best case scenario unfolds and you do engage the bad guys and are able to keep them hunkered down behind cover? What will the police do when they arrive on the scene and find you blazing away with your handgun? What if the "bad guy" you engage turns out to be an off duty cop or another armed citizen? How would you know before squeezing off that round?

Get out ASAP and try to get as many others out, too. Don't draw your weapon unless it's a last resort.

Never get involved in a 3rd party shooting if you can avoid it. There's a very high probability that you don't know who's who and what's really happening.

These days I'm carrying a 'gubment 1911 and a spare mag. That isn't very many rounds, especially considering I've yet to buy myself one of those high capacity 10 round mags. My first objective is to get my family to safety. Luckily my previous job had me doing network support in my mall. I know where all the little hallways and corridors are. I'll be honest, job 1 for me is getting my family out.

In other news...ghecko45 may have returned there for a second.

Call me a coward but I would high tail it to the nearest exit. Now, being a coward, I'm not saying I would not be willing to shoot an assailant in the back if the opportunity were to arise but that would probably not be very likely.

As others have stated. It comes off as horribly selfish and cowardly but I carry to defend myself and my family and I feel that any moral obligation on my part to use my weapon ends there. My family is better served by my staying alive than they are by me having some kind of hero's burial.

My plan is:

Step one: Simultaneously seek cover/concealment and evaluate.

Remaining steps depend on outcome of step one.

That's all I can offer right now

Most of us carry a handgun for our protection (including family/friends etc). Certainly, if you can either leave safely or "find cover safely" (e.g. hide), then that is the thing to do.
Now, if you get to the point where you know that a direct encounter is going to happen, do the best you can to remove the opposition. The big issue for me is to make sure I know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Also, I would expect the bad guys to be wearing armor. So, head and pelvic shots make most sense.

The big difference in the US is that you would expect that 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 of the people in the mall will be armed, so the ratio of good guys to bad guys is more favorable.

Fred Fuller said:

I've known folks who, armed with handguns, confronted people armed with AKs and grenades as long ago as Tet of 1968. Usually it's a losing proposition... breaking contact and escaping is likely to be a better approach than engaging in a protracted firefight, especially in a crowded environment.

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There was a relatively recent story about a guy taking a 165 yard shot with a revolver (1st shot hit, along with subsequent follow up shots) to aide a officer who was pinned down.

These mental exercises are all about the details, though. In that case...he knew his yardage, he knew how his loads shot at distance, he knew his backstop and he knew he had cover. In that situation, taking a shot is much less risky. Start adding unknowns and pistol vs rifle will shift back to the rifle winning.

I can only say job 1 is getting family to safety. Confronting the bad guys is something that would require a special set of circumstances and details and it is hard to make vague generalizations about it.

I'm not a cop.

The cops will shoot me if they see me running around the mall with a gun, even if I have good intentions.

I would render assistance to the injured if I could do so safely.
(Same as what the firemen do.)

Then I would remove myself from the scene as quickly as possible.

If somebody is literally pointing a gun at my head, I will do what I deem most effective at that very moment to avoid them putting a bullet in my head.

The big difference in the US is that you would expect that 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 of the people in the mall will be armed,

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Oh my, I wouldn't expect anything like those odds. If it was 1 in 100, I'd be surprised.

Even in states with high percentages of carry license holders I think you're below 10%, usually well below, and that's not who's carrying, just who's gotten their license. Most license holders seem to be spotty about their carry habits.

Then considering who the usual customer base of a mall is on most days (lots of kids, teens, employees most likely not carrying, and ... "mall type people"... -- I'd say 1 in 100 would be reaching.

Sam1911 said:

Oh my, I wouldn't expect anything like those odds. If it was 1 in 100, I'd be surprised.

Even in states with high percentages of carry license holders I think you're below 10%, usually well below, and that's not who's carrying, just who's gotten their license. Most license holders seem to be spotty about their carry habits.

Then considering who the usual customer base of a mall is on most days (lots of kids, teens, employees most likely not carrying, and ... "mall type people"... -- I'd say 1 in 100 would be reaching.

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The other statistic that doesn't bode well is the demographic of folks who DON'T frequent the mall.

I carry 99% of the time when I am out of the house but haven't been in a mall but once in the last decade or so.

If a wrecked school bus was on fire and leaking fuel but not engulfed would you try to save as many kids as possible or back away to a safe area and watch and wait for those properly trained and equipped?
Different twist on the question but I think helping as many as possible is a worthwhile consideration. Things like this are becoming valid considerations in these post 9-11 times and they don't seem to be getting better. I truly believe many of us will see the day when terrorists will be making such attacks here on our shores again only schools, churches, and other crowded places.
I'm not saying one should seek out and engage terrorists or active shooters but if at the time, one thinks he can save others as well as himself it should be at least a consideration at the time.