Kel-Tec : What's the Latest Opinion ?

My opinion: they're not for everybody. Quality control has improved, as have the designs, with ongoing improvements or tweaks to existing models, and some very innovative new weapons. Years ago, it was really hit and miss; now it's mostly hit.

A lot of folks who are otherwise very good shooters simply can't shoot the K-T, and it may be that you'll end up being one of them.

One of my shooting buddies got a P3AT when they first came out, tried it for a while, claimed it was the biggest POS he'd ever owned, said you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, and sold it for a loss. I let him try mine, and he couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with it, either. I took it and shot a modest 4" group at 20' as he stood there, firing rapidly. He looked stunned, as he would typically outshoot me with other guns.

I don't think it was the gun or the shooter, but some K-T models just don't fit some shooters: their gun's designs and some shooter's physiology just don't work together.

If you can try one out before you buy -- if you have a friend or know someone who shoots them.

Just added this:

There was an extensive discussion in the last week or two about the .32 acp round, and this link will tell you more than you'll ever want to hear about what it can, can't, and might do in a self-defense situation. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=731066&highlight=.32+acp People who love the round (and .32 weapons) and those who are less enamored, participate.

(The P-32 is one of the more trouble-free and pleasant small guns to shoot, but you may want to investigate the effectiveness of the .32 acp round before you go in that direction. From such a short barrel, the round loses a lot of it's already-limited effectiveness. I think there are a number of OTHER discussion here on THIS forum, recently, on that subject, with a lot of people chiming in.)


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I've owned the P-32 and P-11, never had any issues with either but have longs ago sold them and upgraded to better versions. I have also had the PLR-16 which was a really fun gun but I ended up selling that one off too. The only Kel-Tec I own today is the RFB and still really like that rifle.

I have a P3-AT, it shoots fine. I don't expect it to shoot bug hole groups at 50 yards but it does fine at 15 to 20 feet.

Mine has been as reliable as a light switch. It is small though.

I'd like to try a P-32

I have or had the .32, P3AT, PII with 40 S&W conversion, two .223 PLR pistols, SU16 CA rifle and recently bought the LSG bullpup.

Kel Tecs aren't top of the line guns but they do not cost a top of the line price.

I would trust any of them for a defense gun. Especially the last one.




If it wasn't for the eardrum shattering blast and noise I would have one of these PLRs in each vehicle and several spread around the place.





But the noise is a deal breaker for a defense gun.

I have owned a P11, P3At, and PF9. No issues. I thought they were great guns. The only reason I got rid of them was I thought they were cheap LOOKING. Keep in mind, I think the quality is great and it does just what it is supposed to do. Call me names if you want, and I know looks don't matter, but they are ugly and as I got to a point I could afford better looking guns that work just as good, I traded them.

I would have no problem trusting my life or recommending them to someone. Good guns. Also, arguably the best customer service in the industry and they have also done a good job designing new guns. American company. I have much respect for them

I have multiples of their P32 (EDC), P3AT, PF9, & P11. They are inexpensive carry guns. Carried a lot and shot a little. No frills but they are some of the lightest & smallest pistols in their respective classes. Above all, they are dependable.

BTW, how many pistols out there are the size of a P11 & weigh less than 20 ounces fully loaded (12+1)?

As a former LGS manager:

I had constant complaints from Kel Tec buyers, relating to everything from PF-9s to KSGs. 3 consecutive KSG sales lead to customers sending them to Kel Tec for fixes, and that's a drop in the bucket.


As a former PF-9 owner:

In 500 rounds fired, I had 204 documented failures to extract. When I contacted Kel Tec, they mailed me a new extractor, and blamed ammunition. I replied that I had used more than 6 types of ammunition, and it choked on all of them.



I can't stand Kel Tec. Wonderful innovations, terrible execution.

I don't shoot it a ton but when I do my little P-32 goes bang every time.

I used to have a P11. It was a great little gun for a little price. I don't remember any malfunctions. I did sell it to help fund another gun.
If I had to whine about anything, it would be the trigger. My trigger finger would get pretty tender after shooting a couple of boxes of ammo.

I am convinced that John Moses Browning and John T. Thompson must have had bigger hands than me and Thompson's arms must have been longer, because I have to work at it to handle their designs.

I would also imagine that a designer with smaller hands might design a gun hard for Browning or Thompson to operate.

I have a P-3AT. It is what it is. I think of it as one of those undersized temproary spare tires. I don't plan on shooting it a lot, it wasn't intended for that and I have a feeling it wouldn't hold up to thousands of rounds. But I put 100 or so rounds thorough it whan I bought it, enough to be comfortable with it's functioning. I run a mag through it once or twice a year just to re-familiarize myself with it. It isn't the most accurate gun, but is intended to be fired at near contact ranges so I don't see that as an issue.

It gets carried when nothing else will work, and just like the temporary spare tire it will probably get me home if the emergency isn't too great.

I had constant complaints from Kel Tec buyers, relating to everything from PF-9s to KSGs. 3 consecutive KSG sales lead to customers sending them to Kel Tec for fixes, and that's a drop in the bucket.

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Compared to what exactly?

I have had 3 keltec's(one rifle,two pistols).

Not a single issue with any of them.

My quick opinion about them is Great guns,Innovative design(copied by others),too small of an operation to supply the demand.

My quick opinion about them is Great guns,Innovative design(copied by others),too small of an operation to supply the demand.

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True.
Try and find a KSG.

I wish Kel-Tec was the R&D branch for a company like Ruger or S&W.

They have great ideas, but can't produce them at a rate that's conducive to success - supply and demand. Also, they use inferior materials, i.e. their polymer (IMHO) seems second-rate.

Give those ideas / patents to Ruger (LCP anyone?) and watch availability skyrocket and build quality increase.

Heck, I've still never found a HC P-32 in person......been looking for years.

Only experience I have with them is my Sub 2000 .40 cal......seems like a fun plinker to me.....goes bang every time and it was cheap to purchase. I've only had it a short while but so far so good


Their big downfall is supply....you can't find them anywhere....I lucked into the Sub 2k up here they are pretty rare.

6599 said:

...Also, they use inferior materials, i.e. their polymer (IMHO)

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While I think mst of your points above are valid criticisms, probably NOT this one. Their handguns all have metal-frames with a polymer covering that can be replaced. That's certainly why they can keep them light, and arguably why they can be harsh to shoot. I kind of wish they'd do solid polymer -- I suspect it would make the recoil more tolerable.

Their output (guns sold) continues to climb each year... so they're expanding production, too -- but just not fast enough, as you say. They're new ideas are outrunning their ability to deliver them. I'm on several waitings list for a PMR-30 (.22 magnum)

Latest opinion? Seeing the huge demand for the RFB, KSG, PMR30 , Sub 2000 etc.. I would think the opinion would be pretty high. All of the models listed are on many unobtanium lists and selling for well over MSRP. I have had a PF9 since 07' and a S2K Glock 9mm for several years with no problems.

I think they are one of the most innovative companies in the gun business. Their models are some of the most copied by the big name companies- PF9, P3at. Their production could be upped but they seem to be fiscally responsible and not over extend their production capabilites. They seem to constantly be first to market on highly desired features and their customer service is top notch.

I think most manufacturers could take a page out of their playbook and be successful.

I had a p3at for a long while. It did what it was suppose to but had occasional issues with some hollow point designs. In the end I traded to a ruger LCP. Better trigger, locking slide, and to date more reliable at the same price range. Perfect example of what other post suggest, that Kel-tec r&d with rugers ability would make some real sellers.

dusty14u said:

Latest opinion? Seeing the huge demand for the RFB, KSG, PMR30 , Sub 2000 etc.. I would think the opinion would be pretty high. All of the models listed are on many unobtanium lists and selling for well over MSRP. I have had a PF9 since 07' and a S2K Glock 9mm for several years with no problems.

I think they are one of the most innovative companies in the gun business. Their models are some of the most copied by the big name companies- PF9, P3at. Their production could be upped but they seem to be fiscally responsible and not over extend their production capabilites. They seem to constantly be first to market on highly desired features and their customer service is top notch.

I think most manufacturers could take a page out of their playbook and be successful.

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I agree. Kel Tec is extremely innovative. While I wish they'd crank up production of some of their extremely popular models, at least they're still building new designs instead of cranking out copies of what the competition has been building for years like half of Ruger's lineup.

While I wish they'd crank up production of some of their extremely popular models

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The only models I occasionally see are the P-11 and P-3AT......the rest are like hens teeth.

I think most manufacturers could take a page out of their playbook and be successful.

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What? You think other companies want to design products that a vast majority want, but only produce enough to fill a fraction of the public demand?
Basic economics - the market system is driven by supply and demand. There is a demand, but no supply. Mr. Kellgren has had Kel-Tec operating for more than 20 years, and Grendel before that. I don't get it........

Pmr30

Most .22 rim fire are ammo sensitive. Not my PMR30. Never miss fired once, the both magazines take the 30 rounds, as advertised, and easy to load.

Trigger is like a international target pistol! Smooth and light, perfect release.

You had better be wearing good ear protectors, she is loud. Muzzle flash? Oh yes. Did I say it weighs nothing? So light, incredible. I think an ideal back pack pistol.

Not sure how the .22mag would perform in a self defense application, as in hits on an assailant at o-dark-30am, but you could get 10 rounds out in about 5 seconds, or less. They quote 1600fps? Seems a bit hi? But not to be sneezed at.

My other KelTec is a PF9? I think, shot it when I got it, does work, but the Glock19 4th Gen is my EDC, and will be. Not to big/heavy, and 16 rounds of 147g Ranger, good to go, spare G17 mag in reserve.

I have two Kel-Tec pistols: a PF9, and a P32. Neither has ever had a failure not attributed to ammunition (the one failure in the PF9, of between 450-500 rounds, was due to a fired case falling back into the port as the next one was being ejected from it.)

I trust the PF9 as my EDC, and my P32 as a good deep-conceal option.

Dealers, especially smaller operations, dislike the line for two primary reasons. The first is largely due to the number of people who can't run these little guns (or won't learn how), and bring them back, thinking it's the gun. I went through the same with the Kel-Tec's great-grandaddy, the Grendel P10. Never got that one to run even close to well until I learned about limp-wristing, years after getting it.

The other reason is the gun's low price point. Hard to include much of a markup when the MSRP is so low without being called out on it.

I have owned four--one P32, two P3ATs (one each first and second-gen) and a P11. All had problems--some, more than others.

I never got any of them to work 100%--the P32 and the P11 were the closest.

I gave the P32 to a friend and sold the P11 to another friend (at a loss)--both with full disclosure.

I sold both P3ATs (at a loss) with full disclosure.

I put a good bit of time, effort, a variety of ammo types, plus fresh springs and mags (plus free parts from KT) into each. Each improved...somewhat. None was ever reliable enough to carry, and that was the deal breaker for me.

Note that these experiences were sequential, and did not occur at one time, but rather one at a time, over the course of two-three years or so.

To say that I thought their concepts were very good would be accurate. To say that their execution was somewhat less so...would be right on the money.

As a point of reference, I have also owned two Ruger LCPs. Both of them worked perfectly. It's not like building a small .380 that actually works is rocket science.

The PRM 30 is the one that really makes me dislike Kel-tec.
Mainly because I really want one and they are near impossible to find or get. If you do find one you will have to pay a premium price for a tuperware pistol that shouldn't cost half what they are selling for. Reminds me of the Beanie Babies craze, and Tickle Me Elmo.

It's not for me at that price but to each his own.