Bill of sale info?

In a FTF private sale, I don't ask for any personal ID or paperwork, or give any. I'll ask if you are legally prohibited from buying a gun, and to see the driver's license to match photo and State. They can put their thumb over name. I've done my due diligence, cash and gun changes hands, and done. I won't do business with anyone wanting anything more.

when i'm selling, i do what is required by law. in my state, that means verifying they are over 18 for long guns. for handguns, it means obtaining their handgun purchase permit and verifying that their ID matches the name on the permit or verifying they have a CHP and that their ID matches it. i do not keep anything except the handgun purchase permit because that is required by law.

when i'm buying, sometimes they want me to fill out a bill of sale, give them a copy of my CHP and/or driver's license, etc. what i am willing to do depends on how good the deal is. i don't like doing these things simply from a personal security point of view, but i'm not going to pass up a screaming deal because of it.

With a FTF sale I make out a BOS containing all the pertinent data, and will sell only to a resident of my state. He/she must then show me a DL and valid carry permit. No LTC no deal. We both sign the BOS and each take a copy. There's no way I'm selling a handgun to someone without verification and backup paperwork.

Glock19Fan I know many people fill out a bill of sale of some sort during face to face and other private party transactions....

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There are numerous threads here on THR about Bill of Sales.

I would bet less than 5% of FTF nondealer transaction involve either party giving the other personal information.

A bill of sale may offer some level of comfort to seller or buyer but you should realize:
1. it proves nothing. One could create their own bill of sale for the Empire State Building.
2. It doesn't guarantee that the gun was not stolen. It isn't "proof" of anything". If a police officer runs the serial number and discovers it was stolen, you'll likely go to jail. The most complete bill of sale with the sellers DL/phone/address/ht/wt/etc naming you as the buyer and someone else's as the seller...........won't keep you from taking that ride downtown. It won't be a roadside note from mom. At best he'll take your gun and your BOS is worthless.
3. Identity theft. Seriously...........who in their right mind gives a complete stranger a copy of their drivers license? While simply a quick flash of a DL often satisfies the seller that you are a resident of that state, under no circumstance should you let someone copy down your info. Any buyer or seller who demands such info is an idiot if not a potential risk for stealing your identity. If you are that terrified of selling to some guy from Guam (and you live in Texas).......then use a local dealer to transfer the firearm.
4. The myth of "Liability". I'm not a lawyer, but it is a bit of a stretch to think that selling a firearm to someone makes you an accomplice to whatever future crimes they may commit. BUT....if you sell a firearm to a guy who cannot complete a sentence in English, has meth scabs and keeps bragging about capping the fools at 7-11...........a bill of sale may be the worst thing you could do.
5. Upfront honesty. Waiting until the FTF to tell the other party that you require a copy of their DL, a blood or DNA sample is bad manners and I'd cuss you out. Put that in your ad so the normal people can ignore your silly requirements.
6. Most importantly............enjoy your rights as a nonlicensee. Federal law only requires that you sell to a resident of the same state and that you have no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person.

Take their cash, hand them the gun, say good bye.

If I sell a gun a BOS is generated with DL and CCL number. No CCL = no sale. Granted that cuts prospective customers but there isn't enough money that I would accept in lieu of my freedom. Also I have no intention of selling so its not a problem.

However, the BOS can be useful in keeping track of your weapons (if you keep inventory of your belongings) and in the event the firearm is stolen or even used in a crime/murder, it can possibly help lead back to the criminal.

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that's what the antis keep telling us about gun registration, too

When I buy or sell, I make a simple sheet that states the gun, s/n and selling price. I have the buyer/seller sign and date. I can show transactions for all guns I have bought or sold in the past 10 years. Not sure that it would keep me from being liable, but by showing consistent documentation, it can't hurt. It also allows me documentation in the event I ever have to make an insurance claim.

I am in Texas and I know that I can sell my gun without a BOS. My rule is that if I sell it to someone I do or even don't know then I take it to the LGS and pay the $25.00 bucks and do a legal transfer. I tell the buyer this up front so if he has a problem then he can slink off.

Full name matched to their ID and details of what is being sold. Nothing more.

I don't do one.

Most people I know don't do one.

If you really want to do one, the person's full name and the serial # of the firearm would seem like more than enough information for your purposes. IMO

Absolutely no BOS.

Swap the money and the gun and walk away. (of course depending on your state law)

If I have a question at all I might ask to see a Driver's License or CHL.
If I show my ID, my thumb is over the name and address.

Here's the thing,
the antigun crowd wants us to keep full records on FTF gun transfers, so why the heck are you doing it?

If we were required to do this we would be mad as heck about it, so why do something that the antigun crowd wants?


I consider it a good day when I sell or buy a gun FTF, with on paperwork, and end the paper trail on a gun.


All the "liability" stuff that always comes up in these threads is nothing but antigun scare tactics.
You want to know what really happens if a gun you sold (legally) FTF and is used later in a killing?
I'll tell you because it happened to me.

I bought a gun from a FFL dealer.
About two years later the Police Detectives from 1,400 miles away, called me. (don't tell me the 4473 you fill out at a FFL dealer isn't gun registration)
They said, "Your gun was used in a killing".
I said, "I sold the gun (legally) about two years ago. I have no idea who had the gun after that".

They thanked me for my time and that was the end of it.


I consider a gun with no paper trail is worth at least $100 extra.



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I need to ask this question.

If you bought a firearm privately with no paperwork. And later on you decide to sell that same firearm privately. Would you still require a BOS or to show ID or ask questions? Why?

After all there is no documentation that you ever owned that firearm.

M2 Carbine said:

Absolutely no BOS.

Swap the money and the gun and walk away.

If I have a question at all I might ask to see a Driver's License or CHL.
If I show my ID, my thumb is over the name and address.

Here's the thing,
the antigun crowd wants us to keep full records on FTF gun transfers, so why the heck are you doing it?

If we were required to do this we would be mad as heck about it, so why do something that the antigun crowd wants?


I consider it a good day when I sell or buy a gun FTF, with on paperwork, and end the paper trail on a gun.

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I strongly disagree with that logic.

Using that logic, none of us should ever seek out any kind of training. Period. Training is BAD, and we should never do it. Why? Because the antis want to force government mandated training on us, and we fight that.

It doesn't really work that way.

Sovereign citizens choosing to do something is completely different from the government mandating/forcing everybody to do something.

I strongly disagree with that logic.

Using that logic, none of us should ever seek out any kind of training. Period. Training is BAD, and we should never do it. Why? Because the antis want to force government mandated training on us, and we fight that.

It doesn't really work that way.

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Continuing the paper trail on a gun has absolutely nothing to do with training or using the gun properly.

By continuing the paper trail your gun is still "registered". Registration is just a pen stroke from confiscation.

That's exactly what's happening in a couple of our states right now.

M2 Carbine said:

Continuing the paper trail on a gun has absolutely nothing to do with training or using the gun properly.

By continuing the paper trail your gun is still "registered". Registration is just a pen stroke from confiscation.

That's exactly what's happening in a couple of our states right now.

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But they are both doing things the antis are trying to force on us.

You stated that we shouldn't choose to do something the antis are trying to force us to do.

Also, I personally see a huge difference between a government run database of registered guns, and a private citizen gun owner with a piece of paper recording who their gun was sold to. Now, I don't do the bill of sale thing, remember...but I don't buy that it shouldn't be done simply because it is similar to something the antis are trying to force on us. Which is why I mention training. Clearly nobody is ever going to say training is bad or say we shouldn't get it...but yet it is something the antis try to force on via mandates and requirements, and we say no.

My point is that just because we believe the government mandating/forcing something is bad, that doesn't mean the thing itself is bad or shouldn't be done.

If I sell a gun a BOS is generated with DL and CCL number. No CCL = no sale. Granted that cuts prospective customers but there isn't enough money that I would accept in lieu of my freedom. Also I have no intention of selling so its not a problem.

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Has nothing to do with your freedom or the buyer's. What if the buyer doesn't have a CCL (or at least yet)? Maybe they want a house gun.......
NO paperwork is necessary (except for whatever particular state law may require).

I never see anyone ask for a DL when selling a car FTF - how do you know if that person has a DL? Maybe he has 27 DUIs - even if he did and he went out after buying your car, got drunk and killed folks, YOU are not liable - same for FTF gun sales

What a bunch of paranoid nuts in this thread. The Bill of Sale is protection for the buyer that he actually bought the gun from the seller, and didn't steal it from him, or still owe him money for it. It's got zip to do with proving chain-of-custody or investigating any crimes committed.

Suppose you buy a gun from a guy for $300 and he later claims you still owe him $200 more -- the $300 was just a down payment. Suppose he reports it stolen if you won't pay? What's your recourse? Oh, that's right -- I have have a bill of sale showing the full sale price as $300 and a receipt from the seller for $300. Case closed.

So, to answer the original question -- BOS info:

Seller name
Buyer name
Serial #
Sale price
Date

That's all you need, really.

I do a handwritten bill of sale. What I put on it varies, but always includes the make, model, and serial number of the gun and the name and phone number of the person I sold it to. Whenever I do the actual sale, I ask to see a driver's license or state-issued photo ID card with either a permit to carry or a permit to purchase.

Blackbeard said:

What a bunch of paranoid nuts in this thread. The Bill of Sale is protection for the buyer that he actually bought the gun from the seller, and didn't steal it from him, or still owe him money for it. It's got zip to do with proving chain-of-custody or investigating any crimes committed.

Suppose you buy a gun from a guy for $300 and he later claims you still owe him $200 more -- the $300 was just a down payment. Suppose he reports it stolen if you won't pay? What's your recourse? Oh, that's right -- I have have a bill of sale showing the full sale price as $300 and a receipt from the seller for $300. Case closed.

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Why would I need a recourse?

I'd like to see him prove that I owe him money. THAT is the kind of thing...owing money...that needs to be documented.

Blackbeard said:

What a bunch of paranoid nuts in this thread. The Bill of Sale is protection for the buyer that he actually bought the gun from the seller, and didn't steal it from him, or still owe him money for it. It's got zip to do with proving chain-of-custody or investigating any crimes committed.

Suppose you buy a gun from a guy for $300 and he later claims you still owe him $200 more -- the $300 was just a down payment. Suppose he reports it stolen if you won't pay? What's your recourse? Oh, that's right -- I have have a bill of sale showing the full sale price as $300 and a receipt from the seller for $300. Case closed.

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Exactly!

Not only that, it's protection for the seller from the buyer.
As a seller, I require a BOS to protect me from a buyer that claims the gun was not what they agreed to buy (defective, damaged, wrong model, etc).

On my BOSs (regardless if I’m the buyer or seller) is the date of sale, names of both buyer and sell, purchase price (with a statement to the affect that the amount has been paid in full), serial number, and an ‘AS IS’ clause.

Okay, so I went through what I could find on Ohio laws. I couldn't find anything about BOS. Only this, 18 yrs. old for long guns and 21 yrs. old for hand guns. And about whether or not the buyer is a felon, drug abuser, or mentally incompetent, and an Ohio resident.