Bill of sale info?

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John828 said:
Maybe, I am just sheltered here in Arkansas, but I have never asked for nor have I asked for identification. All of my private transactions usually begin with a friendly greeting, then we shoot the breeze while looking at the gun. It all ends with a handshake and usually exchange of money.
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That may be fine in Arkansas but wouldn't fly in Ohio. Again, back to compliance with state and local laws. While I doubt Arkansas does not require the age of the buyer to be proven with some form of ID not my problem as your transaction is between you and the buyer/seller as is your choice to comply or not comply to local and state laws.

While I like your method I won't do it that way here in Ohio as I can't see getting into problems for doing an illegal gun transfer.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
That may be fine in Arkansas but wouldn't fly in Ohio. Again, back to compliance with state and local laws. While I doubt Arkansas does not require the age of the buyer to be proven with some form of ID not my problem as your transaction is between you and the buyer/seller as is your choice to comply or not comply to local and state laws.

While I like your method I won't do it that way here in Ohio as I can't see getting into problems for doing an illegal gun transfer.

Ron
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IME most people are comfortable with assuming that a guy who looks 35...or 50...is at least 18.

Does your state not only require that the buyer be a certain age, but also require that you physically look at ID? If so, what types of ID are acceptable, and are you expected to be able to spot a fake?
 
Perhaps I am missing something, but a lot of people saying they don't use bills of sale are saying that if they ever get a call asking about where the gun is, because the police are trying to trace it after finding it at a crime scene, they'll just shrug and say "I sold it, don't remember to whom."

Sure, that most likely gets you out of it, but it seems like it might be nice to be able to say "Well, I sold it, let me give you the name of the person I sold it to, maybe he or she can help you..."
 
Sure, that most likely gets you out of it, but it seems like it might be nice to be able to say "Well, I sold it, let me give you the name of the person I sold it to, maybe he or she can help you..."
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How many years do you plan on holding onto that bill of sale?
 
joeschmoe said:
Filling a false police report is a serious crime. For $200 you're not going to get?
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Is it false? Maybe in his mind you did steal it. He says it was stolen and you have it. He can prove he bought the gun from a dealer. Where's your proof you bought it from him? Uh-huh. Turn around and place your hands behind your head....

Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have a bill of sale to make this all go away?
 
Blackbeard said:
Is it false? Maybe in his mind you did steal it. He says it was stolen and you have it. He can prove he bought the gun from a dealer. Where's your proof you bought it from him? Uh-huh. Turn around and place your hands behind your head....

Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have a bill of sale to make this all go away?
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Example(s) of this?

Would love to see one.

Or is like that "blood will run in the streets as people get into shootouts on every street corner over simple arguments if shall-issue concealed carry is passed" argument?
 
Warp said:
IME most people are comfortable with assuming that a guy who looks 35...or 50...is at least 18.

Does your state not only require that the buyer be a certain age, but also require that you physically look at ID? If so, what types of ID are acceptable, and are you expected to be able to spot a fake?
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Yeah, and the idea behind the ID isn't just age. I can privately transfer a rifle or shotgun to a person age 18 or older who is a resident of an adjacent state. I can only transfer a handgun to a resident of the State of Ohio who is 21 years of age or older. I am also expected to ask (in this case the buyer) if they are under any disability that prevents them from owning a gun.

While I agree much of this seems foolish it's the law. For years the scum in NYC and Chicago have blamed the flow of guns into their cities on Ohio's lax gun laws. I figure it as I'll play the game but don't look for any added effort on my part. Pretty much what I mentioned in earlier post. So in conclusion if I am selling a handgun the buyer must be not only 21 or older but also a resident of the state of Ohio. The ID is more a residency thing than age thing when the buyer looks like I do as in old and grey.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
Yeah, and the idea behind the ID isn't just age. I can privately transfer a rifle or shotgun to a person age 18 or older who is a resident of an adjacent state. I can only transfer a handgun to a resident of the State of Ohio who is 21 years of age or older. I am also expected to ask (in this case the buyer) if they are under any disability that prevents them from owning a gun.

While I agree much of this seems foolish it's the law. For years the scum in NYC and Chicago have blamed the flow of guns into their cities on Ohio's lax gun laws. I figure it as I'll play the game but don't look for any added effort on my part. Pretty much what I mentioned in earlier post. So in conclusion if I am selling a handgun the buyer must be not only 21 or older but also a resident of the state of Ohio. The ID is more a residency thing than age thing when the buyer looks like I do as in old and grey.

Ron
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Are you sure you can sell a long gun to a resident of a different state?

I don't have the law/regulation at my fingertips, but I'm fairly certain interstate transfers by private individuals are a federal no-no.
 
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
What a bunch of paranoid nuts in this thread.
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Uh.......the "paranoid nuts" are those who think a BOS "protects" them.

The unparanoid nuts hand over the cash, take their new gun and go home.:neener:



Suppose you buy a gun from a guy for $300 and he later claims you still owe him $200 more -- the $300 was just a down payment. Suppose he reports it stolen if you won't pay?
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Seriously?:scrutiny:
You handed him cash in the parking lot of WalMart and he handed you a gun........its over. He'll have a hard time convincing anyone that it was stolen:
1. Undoubtedly he advertised it "for sale" on a gun forum.
2. There is an email trail of correspondence with both buyer and seller agreeing on a price.
3. Even ATF would laugh at him and call it a civil case at best.
4. Stolen? He would have to file a police report for theft. I would bet within the hour the buyer could print out the emails between buyer and seller and cause the liar to backpedal faster than Bill Clinton.
 
I don't use those emoticon fellers very often, but, if they had one where it was beating a dead horse, I sure would use them more often. :banghead:
 
oneounceload said:
Unless you are a FFL, no you cannot
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Even when I had my FFL I couldn't. With an FFL I had to transfer to another FFL across the state lines. That was the only way to get it done. So can you point me to a law hat says I can't in a private sale? Someone calls me from Indiana or West Virginia and wants to buy one of my rifles (private sale), what says I can't go through with the sale?

As to private sales in Ohio:

A synopsis of Ohio state laws on purchase, possession and carrying of firearms.

PURCHASE

No state permit or license is required to purchase a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

It is unlawful to sell a handgun to a person under 21, or any firearm to a person under 18. It is unlawful to furnish any firearm to a person who is under 18 or furnish any handgun to a person under 21, except for lawful hunting, sporting or educational purposes.

It is unlawful to recklessly sell, lend, give, or furnish any firearm to any person who may not possess a firearm, or who is under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse.

Any adult resident of Ohio, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West Virginia. Any adult resident of Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West Virginia, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Ohio. Any such purchase must be for such purposes and under such circumstances as required by federal law.
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That was taken from The NRA ILA write up. Looking for a good direct link to the O.R.C. on the subject.

Now as to the adjacent states (private sales) I have never run into it, I only know what I have read. Now before we jump my case someone point me to the ORC that says yes or no.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
Even when I had my FFL I couldn't. With an FFL I had to transfer to another FFL across the state lines. That was the only way to get it done. So can you point me to a law hat says I can't in a private sale? Someone calls me from Indiana or West Virginia and wants to buy one of my rifles (private sale), what says I can't go through with the sale?

As to private sales in Ohio:



That was taken from The NRA ILA write up. Looking for a good direct link to the O.R.C. on the subject.

Now as to the adjacent states (private sales) I have never run into it, I only know what I have read. Now before we jump my case someone point me to the ORC that says yes or no.

Ron
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http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ns-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

Might want to go take a look at the ATF website.

They are just quoting exerpts from 18 USC 922

Ohio might say it's ok but the Feds say it's not.
 
It is legal to buy a long rifle from a FFL in another state. (Assuming it is allowed in both states or no prohibitions).

(At one time there was the continuous rule regarding purchasing rifles from an FFL , that law was changed. Now you can be from Ohio and travel to Alabama and buy a rifle from a FFL (for instance-if both states allow it). You can't be from Ohio and travel to Alabama to buy any firearms privately.

It is not legal to buy a pistol from a FFL in another state.

It is not legal to buy a long rifle or pistol in another state in a private sale.


A FFL in one state may buy a long gun or pistol from another FFL in another state.


Federal law is the rule for INTERSTATE FIREARMS transactions.
 
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dogtown tom said:
Uh.......the "paranoid nuts" are those who think a BOS "protects" them.
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I don't think you grasp the definition of paranoid. It may be paranoid to think that every one you do business with is out to commit a fraud against you, but has nothing to do with one's perceived value of a BOS.

That being said, I don't get a BOS because I think everyone is out to get me, I get one IN CASE, in that rare instance, someone really is. Much the same as why I (and so many others) carry; not because I think trouble will happen, but to be prepared in case it does. :D

dogtown tom said:
Seriously?:scrutiny:
You handed him cash in the parking lot of WalMart and he handed you a gun........its over. He'll have a hard time convincing anyone that it was stolen:
1. Undoubtedly he advertised it "for sale" on a gun forum.
2. There is an email trail of correspondence with both buyer and seller agreeing on a price.
3. Even ATF would laugh at him and call it a civil case at best.
4. Stolen? He would have to file a police report for theft. I would bet within the hour the buyer could print out the emails between buyer and seller and cause the liar to backpedal faster than Bill Clinton.
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Funny how some people are against a BOS (which is never seen by the government) because of the 'paper trail' it creates, but seem totally unconcerned with an email trail (which we now know IS monitored by the government). :banghead:
 
NoVA Shooter said:
Funny how some people are against a BOS (which is never seen by the government) because of the 'paper trail' it creates, but seem totally unconcerned with an email trail (which we now know IS monitored by the government). :banghead:
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Who says the BOS is never seen by the government?
 
^^^ That's the way it has been for me also. I've never asked, or been asked for ID or to sign a bill of sale. I might if I REALLY wanted the gun, but would never agree to give them DL or CHL information or any other type of personal info to be written down. My personal info. is off limits to anyone else.

And if someone introduced a bill of sale at the FTF without prior agreement, then the deal is off.
 
Warp said:
Who says the BOS is never seen by the government?
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Well, if the government has found a way to view my hand written, hard-copy only BOS that resides in my safe, then I stand corrected.

I'm only talking about my FTF private sales. Not anyone else's. Not a FFL sale. Just little ol' me conducting a sale in a manner that is fitting to my comfort level. :)

If other people create an electronic BOS and store it in an un-secure format that can be access by unknown entities, that's none of my concern (as long as I'm not a participant in said sale).
 
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