Wanting to buy an AR as a gift and was told it was a straw purchase?!?

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

FuriousGeorge

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
27
I'm in NC and want to buy my adult nephew a graduation present. He lives in the Salt Lake area, so I called the most popular LGS there and explained to them what I wanted to do: Pay for the weapon and have my nephew come by so they can run the paperwork on him before he takes possession. I was told it was a straw purchase! In fact, they said it would be better if I bought it myself then give it to him. This runs counter to what I've always believed a straw purchase was. I spoke with two people there and got the same explanation. have I been wrong all these years?
 
Yep. I used to work part time in a shop. No way I'd have done this. IIRC, it has to be husband/wife or father/son type situation.
 
While I don't think what you are proposing is a straw purchase, gifts are not straw purchases so there is no reason to do something so convoluted.

95+% of questions about Form 4473 asked in gun forums are answered in the instructions on the back of the Form 4473.

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer:
For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party.
Click to expand...

Mike

PS. There is nothing in the law about only giving gifts to relatives (close or not) or whether the recipient of the gift is present or absent when buying the gun. It just has to be a legitimate gift (no reimbursement or trade).
 
It is only a gift if you purchase it and then give it to him. Since it is out of state, you have to send the rifle you just bought in NC to a dealer in UT for a transfer to him. You don't have to make any mention of a gift or his relation to you--you are transferring a firearm interstate and that's it. Passing NICS would then be up to him on his end.

You could also just give him a graduation present of $700+ and let him go buy what he wants--which just happens to be that AR15 in the window.
 
Since the gun is a long gun, and long guns can be bought in other states through an FFL.

The OP can go to Salt Lake City.

Buy the gun there in SLC from an FFL.

Hand over the gun to the nephew in SLC.
.
 
It's a technicality, but what you are proposing is not a lawful sale. As you can see in what Arizona Mike posted, the part that matters is that the person filling out the 4473 is the person handing the money to the FFL.

Perfectly legal for you to buy it and gift it to him (though interstate transfers from one private party to another must go through FFL, gift or not), also legal for you to give him the money to buy it. But him filling out the form and you paying is not lawful. Stupid, yes, but that's how it is.
 
Gifting is a better choice. There are only a handful of circumstances where the paperwork (NICS) and payment are done with two different people. I remember buying 3 handguns with my card but my girlfriend (now wife) did the NICS check.
 
Gifting is a better choice. There are only a handful of circumstances where the paperwork (NICS) and payment are done with two different people. I remember buying 3 handguns with my card but my girlfriend (now wife) did the NICS check.
Click to expand...
One person doing the NICS while another pays for and takes possession is blatantly illegal. I would most highly discourage that practice. That is the textbook definition of a straw purchase. When the 4473 says "are you the actual purchaser of this firearm?" and she marked it "yes", it is perjury.
 
These laws are so stupid. Seriously.

Also, as for the ability to purchase a long gun in other states...keep in mind that this depends on state law. Not all states allow people from just any other state to buy a long gun there.
 
Buy the gun, fill out the 4473, then have your dealer ship it to his FFL, and he does 4473 when picking his gift up. No laws are broken, everyone's happy. You'll probably have to pay sales tax though.
 
Also, as for the ability to purchase a long gun in other states...keep in mind that this depends on state law. Not all states allow people from just any other state to buy a long gun there.
Click to expand...
Federal law, shipping between states. Gotta do the 4473 thing (Federal NICS)

And, whether you think the laws are right or not, if you decide to ignore them you could have maybe 5 to 10 years to contemplate the error of your ways.
 
redneck2 said:
Federal law, shipping between states. Gotta do the 4473 thing (Federal NICS)
Click to expand...

I was responding mostly to this:

Midwest said:
Since the gun is a long gun, and long guns can be bought in other states through an FFL.

The OP can go to Salt Lake City.

Buy the gun there in SLC from an FFL.

Hand over the gun to the nephew in SLC.
.
Click to expand...

I'm just pointing out that this isn't something that is guaranteed to work with any state, because not all states allow somebody from just any other state to buy a long gun there.

What you are referring to is shipping a long gun between states. Totally different than buying a long gun outside your state of residence.

redneck2 said:
And, whether you think the laws are right or not, if you decide to ignore them you could have maybe 5 to 10 years to contemplate the error of your ways.
Click to expand...


Of course.

But they ARE stupid.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I've never done this type of transaction before, and my understanding (up until now) is that the person taking possession is the one filling out the paperwork. I was unaware that the buyer had to fill out a 4473 even if he had no intention of possessing it. That was my disconnect. I'll just send him a Visa Cash card, and he can apply it to something of his choosing.

I learn something new everyday!
 
I think you made the right and most expedient choice under the circumstances. If he has problems buying for some reason (like not being 18 yet), he can give the money to his Dad and Dad can gift it to junior.
 
redneck2 said:
One person doing the NICS while another pays for and takes possession is blatantly illegal. I would most highly discourage that practice. That is the textbook definition of a straw purchase. When the 4473 says "are you the actual purchaser of this firearm?" and she marked it "yes", it is perjury.
Click to expand...

Not according to the FFL we bought from. We were both in store and I never even fired the weapons until I became a resident of AL.
 
At the gunshow a couple of weeks back, I watched a guy make a gift of a brandy new S&W MP15 to my friend. Paid for it (at the largest local FFL who owns half the show) with a credit card that was declined 3 times before it went through. My friend filled out the 4473 and was the "actual purchaser." It's irrelevant who pays for it. Joe
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
  • Locked
Idle musings on straw purchases
Replies
14
Views
629
Zundfolge
Zundfolge
C
  • Locked
"Straw Purchase" question
2
Replies
47
Views
2K
crossrhodes
C
F
  • Locked
Handgun as gift?
Replies
8
Views
404
Eightball
E
P
  • Locked
"Straw purchase" questions...
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Hkmp5sd
H
HEAVY METAL 1
  • Locked
What is a "Straw Purchase?" (see post 23)
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
37K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
Back
Top