What are armed citizens in Balitmore doing?

Sam1911 said:

I'll accept your sympathies. I and the 99% of folks who dont own any material possession so cherished as to give up our lives and futures over it.

Lives of my family? Absolutely. My freedom? Yes. Ideals of liberty? I like to hope so.
Material "things?"

A wise man once said, "the things you own end up owning you." If you are so compelled by your patch of dirt and pile of wood and sentiment that you'd risk life and freedom and the future of your loved ones over it, then you have my sympathies.

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To each their own. But consider, what is slavery? In the broadest sense it is not having benefit of the products (or fruits if you prefer) of your own labor. If the lowest two bit piece of trash can come into your home and pick up whatever he wants provided he makes no threat to you or your family do you really have any benefit to labor? A slave has no possessions since his master can take all he has at whim. Just like the sneak thief or looter... I mean protester.

The way I see it.....if I end up dead or in prison because I murdered someone. ...I'm not going to be enjoying those possessions I fought so hard to save...

ide rather choose the route that allows me to live my life and have the chance to acquire new possessions and attach new sentiment to them....

....but that's just me.....

If you want to go killing people because of some concocted philosophical notion violating your god given rights to own possessions, by all means do what you feel you need to do....but be prepared to answer for your actions

Jim K said:

So far at least, the riots don't seem to be race based, more anti-police than anti-white. White news people and whites driving by or watching have not been bothered, and some white folks joined the genuine protests.

Jim

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You must have been watching CNN or something.

Yeah, no racist thugs attacking people that are a different race and screaming racial slurs in this riot.

http://youtu.be/_BfM6_dm7l0









http://youtu.be/st4IHokD4Jc

the test for Baltimore comes when it's time to prosecute the looters and violent protesters. I'm sure hundreds of them are caught on camera and should be spending considerable time in jail. God bless everyone involved.

Without going into detail, I would like to lend my backing to Officer's Wife.

Perhaps she remembers me from another site.

M-Cameron said:

Yeah....I'm pretty sure MLK wasn't talking about your flat screen TV and your antique hummel set when he said that.....

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This is a fallacy called "Appeal to Ridicule."

By using it, you have completely undermined your position.

SuperNaut said:

This is a fallacy called "Appeal to Ridicule."

By using it, you have completely undermined your position.

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actually its not pal...my response in no way fits into the appeals to ridicule fallacy....

but can we please stop quoting 'argument theories' on forums....its a gun forum not a philosophy of debate class.

TimSr said:

Wow, thats a pretty offensive blanket condemnation of people who may have serious emotional ties to their life's work, their life's savings, and their livelihood. If you ever got to know some of those Koreans, and what they survived and went through to later start those businesses here, you'd maybe have a little more respect for their decisions to protect their businesses, instead of ridiculing them.

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As someone else said, that's quite literally what insurance (kept up to date) is for. I'm not condoning the actions of the criminals in the least. But shooting and killing them to protect one's material goods is indeed pretty sicko.

As far as the Los Angeles merchants, had they actually fired on and killed criminals in defense of their material goods, there's a good chance they would still be in the can...

A good friend of mine owns a jewelry store in the Jewelry District of Downtown Los Angeles. He has about a dozen employees. They actually plan for what to do if all heck breaks loose in the city. It consists largely of grabbing all the good stuff, battening down the hatches and heading for the Westside or the San Fernando Valley.

It does not include hunkering down with AR's and MRE's, waiting for a fight.

M-Cameron said:

true...not all items can be replaced....and you certainly cannot replace sentimental value....

but are you seriously willing to actually take another persons life, open yourself up to potential legal hassle, and possibly face murder charges and spend your life in prison....to protect an inanimate object?.....

hell, you only have so many shots.....what if a pack of looters attacks you, and you run out of ammo and are over powered?......are you willing to risk death or serious injury to protect an inanimate object?.....i dunno, maybe you are......

i dont enjoy the thought of having to kill someone....to me, using deadly force is a last resort, and only when i feel my life or the life of someone else is in eminent danger........despite how much sentimental or monetary value an object may have, i do not consider the use of deadly force appropriate....

....your mileage may vary......

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Thanks for the sanity check...

It's remarkable that given a choice, some would actually shoot and kill others in order not to lose material goods.

M-Cameron said:

actually its not pal...my response in no way fits into the appeals to ridicule fallacy....

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Maybe when you stop misusing ellipses we can talk - pal.

but can we please stop quoting 'argument theories' on forums....its a gun forum not a philosophy of debate class.

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One of the nice things about discussion is the many alternate points of view, as well as diversions, that enter into the conversation. I enjoy quoting argument theories, and you can ignore them whenever you wish.

All quotes Originally posted by Officers Wife.

If you are indeed so poor as to have nothing you are willing to die for, your poverty is indeed devastating. You have my sympathies.

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I have plenty to die for..... but none of them are material objects. I think I side with Sam on this.

The lives of scum and brigands may matter, in the scale of value, the life work of my family's past that defines my children's future matter more. If mine doesn't matter to them, I see reason none for theirs to matter to me.

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I'm only 3rd gen American. My great grand parents willingly gave up everything material AND risked dyng during the journey.

Their souls are what defined their children (and me)... NOT the material things.

Heck.. a couple/few years ago, death came up in topic with my dad. I told him, ideally, he will have spent his last dime the day he dies. His possessions are not his legacy; His soul is.

My soul is worth dying for. My material possessions are not.

To each their own. But consider, what is slavery? In the broadest sense it is not having benefit of the products (or fruits if you prefer) of your own labor. If the lowest two bit piece of trash can come into your home and pick up whatever he wants provided he makes no threat to you or your family do you really have any benefit to labor? A slave has no possessions since his master can take all he has at whim. Just like the sneak thief or looter... I mean protester.
__________________.

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I gotta use a on this one.

Seriously. Who is going to equate a looter to a slaves master?

The only type of person I can imagine is one that lets material things define their soul.

Maybe when you stop misusing ellipses we can talk - pal.

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im dyslexic...the ellipses help to space out the sentences to make them easier to comprehend.....but please, feel free to further attack my style of writing....

I had to look up the word "ellipses".... learn something new everyday I guess. I use them as a pause..... if no one has figured that out yet.

It also said "ellipses" are a series of 3 dots..... maybe Cameron wasn't "misusing" them after all.


ETA: Cant we go back to productive discussions like 9 vs 45 and glock vs everything else?



.

M-Cameron said:

im dyslexic...the ellipses help to space out the sentences to make them easier to comprehend.....but please, feel free to further attack my style of writing....

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As am I.

What prize do we win?

Now, as to the topic at hand, possessions and property are paid for with pieces of our lives, paid for by the compensation we receive for our time and effort. Our "things" define us as much as our thoughts and our actions and our "souls." We are also defined by our writing, and behavior. You may not like it, but it is the truth.

Our "things" define us as much as our thoughts and our actions and our "souls."

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I guess I learned two things today.

We are also defined by our writing, and behavior. You may not like it, but it is the truth.

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BTW, I think you misplaced the period in the first quote above.

It was interesting times in Detriot in 67 riot.
Cops broke up a an illegal poker party & the riot was on.
two things I did not like:
Having to fix the bullet holes in my new Buick---they shot at people going to work on I-94.
Having trouble getting a drink as beer & booze was shut down
Lucky--only 44 people killed

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The 60's had a lot of riots. Watts (34 dead), Chicago (39 dead) and Detroit. Riots these days only last a day or two. Those lasted for a week and police actually shot rioters. Never happen these days, wouldn't be PC.

If someone DID try to defend their business with a firearm, they'd probably find out the police who didn't lift a finger to protect them WILL function as a security team for the looters and rioters.

I've read (on the Internet, so it must be true) that many small businesses in these . . . uh . . . diverse areas . . . have upped their insurance coverage, paying higher premiums, and are hoping for a riot to destroy their business so they can take the insurance check and move somewhere civilized. This would actually make sense, and explain why the small businesses aren't defending their means of making a living.

Chains? No clerk or manager will put himself on the line for CVS or Walgreens.

And so far, the rioters and looters don't seem to be assaulting homes.

Here's a couple of questions: The National Guard has supposedly been deployed. 1. Are they armed? 2. Were they issued ammo, or did they have to bring their own? 3. What are their ROEs?

Quote:
We are also defined by our writing, and behavior. You may not like it, but it is the truth.

BTW, I think you misplaced the period in the first quote above.

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Ouch. Hey, you're hogging the popcorn....................................................

I'm with Officers Wife here...
When the brigade of rioters approach your property, how do you know they mean only to burn down your property, and leave you unharmed?
In that scenario, I'm meeting them about 100 yards out, and letting them know I would advise them to go elsewhere. If I feel that my life, or the life of my family is in jeopardy, I need no other justification.

ARAGON - " ... They never stop to think what would have happened to those [Korean-America store owners] grocers had they actually fired and hit some of the rioting thugs. Then maybe the fantasy wouldn't be so romantic in their minds.

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You'd be surprised at how the Korean-America store owners used their firearms to protect their businesses during the 1992 L.A. South Central riots.

Of course they shot at some of the rioting thugs who were threatening them and their businesses. Not one of the K.As. ended up "going to prison," as someone here posted.

Just because you didn't see it happening on teeeveee doesn't mean it did not happen.

L.W.

Leanwolf said:

You'd be surprised at how the Korean-America store owners used their firearms to protect their businesses during the 1992 L.A. South Central riots.

Of course they shot at some of the rioting thugs who were threatening them and their businesses. Not one of the K.As. ended up "going to prison," as someone here posted.

Just because you didn't see it happening on teeeveee doesn't mean it did not happen.

L.W.

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I lived in Santa Monica at the time of that riot...

They shot (handguns) but they didn't hit or kill anyone. Had they, jail or prison time would most certainly have been forthcoming...

xxxleafybugxxx said:

I'm with Officers Wife here...
When the brigade of rioters approach your property, how do you know they mean only to burn down your property, and leave you unharmed?
In that scenario, I'm meeting them about 100 yards out, and letting them know I would advise them to go elsewhere. If I feel that my life, or the life of my family is in jeopardy, I need no other justification.

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Sorry but no sale.

Why again are you (and your family?) hanging around your business location when you know trouble is headed your way?

Officers'Wife said:

To each their own. But consider, what is slavery? In the broadest sense it is not having benefit of the products (or fruits if you prefer) of your own labor. If the lowest two bit piece of trash can come into your home and pick up whatever he wants provided he makes no threat to you or your family do you really have any benefit to labor? A slave has no possessions since his master can take all he has at whim. Just like the sneak thief or looter... I mean protester.

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Are you serious?

It's about being held in bondage against one's desire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARAGON - "I lived in Santa Monica at the time of that riot... "

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I lived in Los Angeles at that time also. For 36 years in fact, and I was in law enforcement at the time of the South Central riots.

ARAGON - "They [the Korean American store owners] shot (handguns) but they didn't hit or kill anyone. Had they, jail or prison time would most certainly have been forthcoming..."

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The K.As. also shot rifles and shotguns ... but believe whatever you like.

By the way, there were a whole lot of things that went on during that riot that were never reported... or seen on teeeveee.

L.W.