KT Sub2000 Gen 2 on Gunbroker

Artofgolf · May 19, 2015

Looks like the Gen 2 Sub2K's are selling on Gunbroker now

Bids are ranging from $505 ~ $605

No MSRP deals here.
I've got a few bids in for my truck gun - let's see how it goes

wally · May 20, 2015

What is different with the Gen 2?

Artofgolf · May 20, 2015

wally, the Gen 2 comes with a threaded barrel, aluminum front sight (versus the plastic POS on the Gen 1), improved molded grips, bottom & top pic rails with M-Lok slots on the sides of the foregrip, with the capability of extending the butt an additional 1 ½" with adjustable lock-pin settings. I've wanted one for a long time, but never got one because, IMHO, the first version was lacking. This new Gen 2 had all the bells & whistles which hooked me

GB hit my bid & it's shipping next week

Update ~ Additional info here: http://www.shotgunnews.com/first-look/revamped-2015-kel-tec-sub-2000-gen-2/

Panzerschwein · May 20, 2015

Artofgolf said:
wally, the Gen 2 comes with a threaded barrel, aluminum front sight (versus the plastic POS on the Gen 1), improved molded grips, bottom & top pic rails with M-Lok slots on the sides of the foregrip, with the capability of extending the butt an additional 1 ½" with adjustable lock-pin settings. I've wanted one for a long time, but never got one because, IMHO, the first version was lacking. This new Gen 2 had all the bells & whistles which hooked me
GB hit my bid & it's shipping next week

NOICE!!!! Looking forward to the range report!

The Gen 2 is also supposed to be easier and faster to produce for whatever reason, and Kel-Tec is on record as saying they can double production to fill the very large demand for these guns... only time will tell though, it's Kel-Tec after all... makers of vapor ware galore!

Artofgolf · May 21, 2015

Cooldill said:
NOICE!!!! Looking forward to the range report!

Sometime in June, after the mods are finished

Cooldill said:
The Gen 2 is also supposed to be easier and faster to produce for whatever reason, and Kel-Tec is on record as saying they can double production to fill the very large demand for these guns... only time will tell though, it's Kel-Tec after all... makers of vapor ware galore!

You're right, Cooldill. I was told by a KT employee that they spent a lot of effort in trimming the flashing from the original plastic furniture, which slowed production dramatically.
He also mentioned that an expanded manufacturing facility has been completed ~ should help volume >> more available than before.
I heard that the release of this Gen 2 would be in late summer or fall; spring arrival surprised all of us

BSA1 · May 21, 2015

At $600.00 the Beretta CX4 is a much better quality and available gun.

Artofgolf · May 21, 2015

BSA1 said:
At $600.00 the Beretta CX4 is a much better quality and available gun.

You're probably right. But I don't want a Beretta CX4

It doesn't fold in half.

USAF_Vet · May 21, 2015

What magazine options are available on the Gen 2. I'm still looking for a Gen 1 that takes the S&W 59 series mags, which apparently are very rare. Hoping they keep that as an option for the Gen 2. I'd love mag interchangeability between the P11 and the Sub2K;G2.

Artofgolf · May 21, 2015

USAF_Vet said:
What magazine options are available on the Gen 2. ... I'd love mag interchangeability between the P11 and the Sub2K;G2.

One of the reasons I'm interested, as I carry a G19.

At the present, Gen 2 S2K is available only with Glock mags, with others on the way.

Courtesy: Guns, Holsters & Gear website

New Magazine Options
The Gen 2 SUB-2000 will have models available that accept a variety of pistol magazines.
New for the Gen 2 will be guns that will take Smith & Wesson M&P and Springfield XD magazines.
The Kel-Tec rep said the two new magazine options are being introduced due to significant customer demand.

Read the original article here: http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2015/01/22/kel-tec-sub-2000-gen2/ .

USAF_Vet · May 22, 2015

I figured they'd switch to S&W M&P mags for the Gen 2. Bummer, but not a surprise.

Well, the search for my grail PCC continues.

B!ngoFuelUSN · May 22, 2015

'I figured they'd switch to S&W M&P mags for the Gen 2. Bummer, but not a surprise.

Well, the search for my grail PCC continues.'

The Kel-Tec is a fine gun and with the folding design enabling it to border on being an excellent one. But if you can get by without the folding thing, an HK94 or quality clone (I have an MKE94 made in Turkey on an H&K line) is the unicorn gun. Sort of rare and pricey but an amazing design and shooter.
If I didn't have the 94, I'd be very tempted by the KT.
B

Artofgolf · May 22, 2015

B!ngoFuelUSN said:
...an HK94 or quality clone (I have an MKE94 made in Turkey on an H&K line) is the unicorn gun. Sort of rare and pricey but an amazing design and shooter...B

Yeah, I'd like a MP5 if I could afford one. I regret not picking one up in the early '80's when they were reasonably priced.
How does the MKE 94 stack-up from a quality perspective? Parts availability?

USAF_Vet · May 22, 2015

B!ngoFuelUSN said:
'I figured they'd switch to S&W M&P mags for the Gen 2. Bummer, but not a surprise.

Well, the search for my grail PCC continues.'

The Kel-Tec is a fine gun and with the folding design enabling it to border on being an excellent one. But if you can get by without the folding thing, an HK94 or quality clone (I have an MKE94 made in Turkey on an H&K line) is the unicorn gun. Sort of rare and pricey but an amazing design and shooter.
If I didn't have the 94, I'd be very tempted by the KT.
B

The only reason I was considering the Sub2K was magazine interchangeability with the P11 I plan on getting and my S&W 469. I'll probably have an easier time of finding a Marlin camp carbine 9mm, with also uses S&W 59 series mags.

The folding option of the Kel Tec is a bonus, but an unnecessary one.

I'll quit hijacking the thread now.

Panzerschwein · May 22, 2015

Some folks have modified their Sub 2000s to take G19 15 round mags. All you do is saw off about 1/2" off the bottom of the grip frame, allowing the shorter G19 mags to fit. Some say the grip isn't as comfortable afterwards. Interestingly, Kel Tec did or still does offer the Sub 2000 in G19 magazine accepting format... and all they did was do just what I said. They used the same base G17 plastic frame, but just professionally trimmed it to take G19 mags!

I think it's something I would do, as I have a G19 with several G19 mags. Someone mentioned the Cx4 storm costing $600... I haven't been able to find any under $800 or so, it's an expensive setup for what it is.

IMHO, the Sub 2000 is the better gun. It sort of does away with the "I'd just rather have a rifle caliber rifle", as the Sub 2K does things no rifle can do and can fit in places no (non SBR) rifle can go... plus it's far lighter than any AR-15 etc. etc. It's just a really well designed PCC (pistol caliber carbine) that really does fill a tactical niche IMHO. The Cx4, while a great gun of good quality, isn't as handy and convenient nor as light as the folding Sub 2K.

OP: Still looking forward to the range review whenever you decide to post one! If the results on the Sub 2000 Gen 2 are good and the price comes down, I'll be getting one as a companion for my G19.

Artofgolf · May 22, 2015

Cooldill said:
...OP: Still looking forward to the range review whenever you decide to post one! If the results on the Sub 2000 Gen 2 are good and the price comes down, I'll be getting one as a companion for my G19.

It just left Fort Walton Beach with UPS. Should be available for pick-up later next week. But with the mods I plan to do, it won't be until sometime in late June.

Phaedrus/69 · May 23, 2015

Word through the grapevine is that the Gen 2 is a worthwhile improvement. I agree that the Storm is probably better but it definitely doesn't fold in half! I'll concede that I've always kind of wanted one, and now the new version looks like a winner. It would be awesome to take camping and on longer hikes, stowed in my pack while a sidearm rides on my hip or in my chest rig.

Phaedrus/69 · May 23, 2015

Here's a video that explains some of the differences. I'll recap some of the highlights. First they ditched the old plastic front sight for an aluminum one that takes an AR post (so you could use a tritium one if you like). That sight is held on by a threaded nut so you can remove the sight and screw on a suppressor or whatever. Next the gun has a new improved grip, a three position stock with better texture and they added a molded in pic rail top and bottom. There's M-Lok slots along both sides. They say the ejection port has been opened up 40% for reliability. Lastly when folded it lock on the top rail, not the front sight.

All in all it looks like a big improvement. Last I checked HKSpecialist has a couple in stock, too.

Artofgolf · May 23, 2015

Phaedrus/69 said:
...All in all it looks like a big improvement. Last I checked HKSpecialist has a couple in stock, too.

Checked HK Specialist ~ saw the Gen 1 listed (out of stock) & no listing for the Gen 2. They must have sold very fast

The Gen 1 was much cheaper on GB ~ I think they are trying to get rid of the old model.

Artofgolf · May 23, 2015

Cooldill said:
Some folks have modified their Sub 2000s to take G19 15 round mags. .... Some say the grip isn't as comfortable afterwards. ..companion for my G19.

I guess you could go that route if you wanted. My thinking went the other way, as I already use G17 mags for my G19, which has additional capacity.
With my big meathooks, the X-Grip mag adapter works well.

They slip-on and off easily

Courtesy: X-Grip

GLOCK 19-23 MAG ADAPTER
1. TO ASSEMBLE: SLIDE THE X GRIP DOWN OVER THE G17 OR G22 FACTORY MAG TUBE UNTIL THE X GRIP SEATS FIRMLY AGAINST THE FLOORPLATE.
2. TO DISASSEMBLE: SQUEEZE THE X GRIP FROM FRONT TO BACK, THEN SLIDE THE X GRIP UP AND OFF OF THE MAGAZINE.

Lookin' forward to only one style of magazine for both firearms

(Several Happy Sticks in reserve, of course)

Panzerschwein · May 23, 2015

For the guys who run their G19s with the shorter 15 round mags, it makes sense.

I would do it just because I have a few 15 round mags that came with my G19 and would want the Sub 2K to be able to take those mags.

BSA1 · May 24, 2015

You're probably right. But I don't want a Beretta CX4
It doesn't fold in half.

I agree that it sounds like a very cool concept. But I have never see one in person.

Someone mentioned the Cx4 storm costing $600... I haven't been able to find any under $800 or so, it's an expensive setup for what it is.

Your answer is at your fingertips...

http://www.botach.com/beretta-cx4-storm-9mm-patrol-carbine-w-five-17rd-px4-magazines/

But I don't intend to hijack the O.P.s thread. It's just I have never seen or handled the SUB 2000 so I can't get excited about it. In fact I have only seen two PMR-30's since they have been announced and both were priced at $800.00.

Like I said it is a great concept. But with such a limited production the masses will never see or be able to buy one.

Artofgolf · May 24, 2015

BSA1 said:
I agree that it sounds like a very cool concept. But I have never see one in person....It's just I have never seen or handled the SUB 2000 so ......Like I said it is a great concept. But with such a limited production ......

I've only shot a few rounds with a friend's S2K (1st Gen.) and I thought the rifle functioned well - but the lack of other features turned me off.

They are ramping-up production; the only ones I've noticed are on internet auction sites. We'll see as time goes on if they become generally more available.

Update: Just noticed the 40 S&W Gen 2 version on GB
Product Specifications

Manufacturer: Kel-Tec Model: Sub 2K Gen2
Action: Semi-automatic
Type: Carbine
Caliber: 40S&W
Barrel Length: 16.1"
Finish/Color: Parkerized
Grips/Stock: Black
Accessories: 1 magazine
Accessories: 1 Mag
Capacity: 15Rd
Description: OEM Glk 22 Mag
Sights: Adjustable Sights
Manufacturer Part #: SUB2K40GLK15BBLK

Artofgolf · May 29, 2015

BSA1 said:
...Like I said it is a great concept. But with such a limited production the masses will never see or be able to buy one.

Well, I'm part of the masses & mine arrived today

Finally got my truck gun!

I'll post a few pics with a range report to follow in mid-June (after the mods).

(click on images to expand)

Speedo66 · May 29, 2015

I like the design of the fore end, and an adjustable stock to lengthen trigger pull is nice. Don't think I'd sell my perfect running gen1, but it would be great if those parts could be retrofitted to the older model.

I took care of the POS plastic front sight myself by installing a metal AK style front sight off a HiPoint carbine, which works well.

Here's another video which goes into detail showing the differences between the Gen1 and the Gen2.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...h+ewild&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

Artofgolf · May 29, 2015

Thanks for the video link, Speedo66.

Here is a link from KelTec with the engineer that designed the upgrades on the Gen 2 :what:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pKiYoxDq9M

I'm considering replacing the fore end with the indexing unit offered by Red Lion Precision. Even with the new design, it appears to me that you need a QD for a red-dot. Have you found a better alternative for mounting optics & retaining the folding feature?

KT Sub2000 Gen 2 on Gunbroker

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