Which hand for groceries?

hdwhit said:

What kind of neighborhood do you live in that the time it would take to drop a sack of groceries would be a factor in your survival?

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Neighborhood doesn't matter. That merely speaks to the odds of a risk occurring, not the severity. You either find yourself in a violent situation or not. It isn't like an armed robber who happens to be in a "nice" neighborhood is going to move slower or something.

Another note on dropping something. In the moment under adrenaline, you are going to be focused on survival. If the groceries are in a hand you need to fight, they'll just disappear as you take action. If they are in a hand you don't need, you might be surprised to see them still there and feel like an idiot "why didn't I drop them?" Because you started to draw (or strike) with the other hand, and handled the situation. Your mind wasn't diverting attention to something unimportant like what was held in the other hand.

It's optimal to have your gun hand free when you need to draw but that's not always practical. Train yourself to drop whatever is in your hand when you need to draw. You'll need to learn some muscle memory because dropping things on the floor purposely is not intuitive.

Another tactic to take into consideration is not to drop whatever is in your firing hand. But instead consider THROWING it. In the event of a violent confrontation, a thrown bag of groceries can be a very good way of buying yourself some time to get to your firearm.

Dog Soldier said:

The facts are many civilians surprised by armed conflicts forget they have a handgun.

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Can you source this claim?

I like to carry my hot coffe in my right hand

Dog Soldier said:

... The facts are many civilians surprised by armed conflicts forget they have a handgun. We are not all born gun fighters. ...

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One thing that I had to work hard to overcome (and I am not sure that I ever did) was my visceral response to a suddenly-perceived (surprise) THREAT appearing before me. My autonomic response is to close fast on the Threat and go hands-on ... even though there is a pistol on my belt.

That may be different now because much time has passed since I was last in such a situation.

To answer the OP's query ... if I am going to be moving thru areas where I am hemmed-in, areas where a BG may lurk, I mentally prepare to drop/throw whatever is in my "gunhand".

By long habit, I am used to constantly scanning for threats. I do it now "in my sleep" so to speak, not being consciously aware that I am doing it until something raises a red flag and draws my focus.

PegLegPeat said:

3) Having good situational awareness and an ingrained threat response reflex is more important.

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Exactly. Personally, I'm in the "carry stuff in your off hand" group but thats not to say it's the only way. Somebody that has trained and is switched on and paying attention and has thought about why they're doing what they're doing will fare better than someone who just happens to be carrying the groceries in one hand or the other.

bearcreek said:

Exactly. Personally, I'm in the "carry stuff in your off hand" group but thats not to say it's the only way. Somebody that has trained and is switched on and paying attention and has thought about why they're doing what they're doing will fare better than someone who just happens to be carrying the groceries in one hand or the other.

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Yep,
We have all heard the story of the old lawman that got caught in a gun battle, and when he finally got home he discovered 6 empties in his pants pocket.

You perform like you practice. Practice properly.

3) Having good situational awareness and an ingrained threat response reflex is more important.

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Yep, like the restaurant seating situation, it doesn't matter to me what side a wall is on (if I pick it's behind me) or how close to an exit I am but I am going to have the best seat at the table to see the rest of the place.

Right hand free to draw if you are right-handed.

To those who wonder what type of neighborhood you live in to worry about such matters.... I live in one of the lowest-crime sections of the lowest-crime towns in the lowest-crime states in America. I still CCW and leave my right hand free when at ATMs, gas stations, walking through parking lots, standing in line, etc. If I knew when and where something bad was going to happen, I wouldn't go there.

I am frequently surprise to see armed couriers carrying their bag in their gun hand. Often wondered if they are carrying s second concealed piece. Seems unwise but they must have their reasons. Occasionally I see one with his weapon in hand and the other gripping the bag. That seems smarter. Anyone have experience with that?

ACP said:

To those who wonder what type of neighborhood you live in to worry about such matters.... I live in one of the lowest-crime sections of the lowest-crime towns in the lowest-crime states in America. I still CCW and leave my right hand free when at ATMs, gas stations, walking through parking lots, standing in line, etc. If I knew when and where something bad was going to happen, I wouldn't go there.

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Those are different scenarios. Robbery at gas stations, ATMs, and parking lots are far more common than a robbery from your car to front door carrying groceries. If the option is available, I leave my gun hand free.

Blacksmoke said:

I am frequently surprise to see armed couriers carrying their bag in their gun hand. Often wondered if they are carrying s second concealed piece. Seems unwise but they must have their reasons. Occasionally I see one with his weapon in hand and the other gripping the bag. That seems smarter. Anyone have experience with that?

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Depends on the company and level of approved training. I have known plenty of people who have worked for Loomis or Brinks armored truck services for money transfers. Some managers tell them to load the firearm and never touch it unless absolutely necessary. Even to the point of storing it in the holster after the day is done. A former soldier of mine has been working for Loomis for 4 years and he has only handled his firearm ONCE for his hire qualification. From a tactical standpoint, if you are carrying or pushing a large cart full of money, it is better to have your hand free to operate doors and whatnot. You aren't carrying a purse that is easy to grab and run off with. Often those bags weigh over 30 pounds and more if they are on a cart, not so easy to get away with before a guard can grab a firearm.

ACP said:

Right hand free to draw if you are right-handed.

To those who wonder what type of neighborhood you live in to worry about such matters.... I live in one of the lowest-crime sections of the lowest-crime towns in the lowest-crime states in America.

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You never know where trouble will find you.
Friends of the family own a business in a peaceful little hometown only 20 miles from me. Their surveillance camera caught the images of an 8yo girl trying to escape her murderer. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this but it haunts them horribly.
If only someone who had situation awareness had helped her.

Blacksmoke said:

I am frequently surprise to see armed couriers carrying their bag in their gun hand. Often wondered if they are carrying s second concealed piece. Seems unwise but they must have their reasons. Occasionally I see one with his weapon in hand and the other gripping the bag. That seems smarter. Anyone have experience with that?

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Rule number 1: give up the bag immediately

Rule number 2: never forget rule number one.

Many, many years ago I was briefly a supervisor for a private security outfit down here in paradise....This was before I entered the Academy so I was pretty much un-trained (except that I was a VN vet..). To put it mildly we had both unarmed and armed guards (and businesses paid different rates for each category). None of the guards had any training at all - the armed ones had the basic requirements to get an armed security license (this was in the early seventies - a different time - long before the Miami area turned red-hot and they began to do movies and TV about the goings on...). Since some jobs required an armed person we had a few really questionable bodies (when we had no one else available). One was so bad he was only issued one bullet - and required to keep it in his shirt pocket -like that TV character Barney Fife.... True story...

It was an eye-opener for a young guy, fresh out of the Army.... To this day I'm a bit leary of any private security types, period.

lemaymiami said:

To this day I'm a bit leary of any private security types, period.

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Mid-70s ... for the first year after opening the beachfront hotel there was no security ... until after I was robbed early one morning. After that, during several hours each night, late, I would have an off-duty city police officer with me.

Apparently, that cost too much so the hotel admin signed a contract with Wackenhut Security (at my request, no guns) ... and things got interesting.

The one fellow that I recall carried a nightstick ... kept trying to spin it which resulted in him repeatedly striking himself in the body & head. It was painful to watch.

Late one slow night I got the opportunity to have a long, rambling conversation with this nice young fellow. From this I learned 2 things that I still remember after ~40 years:

1 - That he was quick. So quick that he would have no problem sidestepping and batting away (if he had a piece of board in his hands) a .38 bullet fired at him from 50-75 feet away.

2 - There is no gravity on the moon ... because there is no atmosphere on the moon ... atmosphere is what holds us on the surface of the earth.

Ayup, no guns for those guys. If a situation required a gun, I had one under my jacket.

Trunk Monkey said:

Rule number 1: give up the bag immediately

Rule number 2: never forget rule number one.

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Are you saying this is an actual rule, or it's what you think they should do? Seems like the reason they're armed is to protect the bag, no?

Dog Soldier said:

I suspect I am more likely to drop the grocery bag and break a jar of peanut butter. The facts are many civilians surprised by armed conflicts forget they have a handgun. We are not all born gun fighters.
More times should be spent developing response. Maybe less time on "What if".

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You evidently have not bought peanut butter lately. The days of peanut butter in GLASS jars are long gone. It's all plastic my friend.

Deputy Dawg2 said:

You evidently have not bought peanut butter lately. The days of peanut butter in GLASS jars are long gone. It's all plastic my friend.

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Nope, Smuckers peanut butter comes in glass jars, as does a number of other smaller brands.

bearcreek said:

Are you saying this is an actual rule, or it's what you think they should do?

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Really?

GBExpat said:

Really?

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Yes, really. What's the point in a courier being armed if the default response is to immediately give up the bag? I always assumed they were armed because they're supposed to protect the money from getting stolen. Is that not accurate?

The title of the Thread is "Which hand for groceries?", bearcreek.

GBExpat said:

The title of the Thread is "Which hand for groceries?", bearcreek.

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Yes, I'm aware of that. Evidently you missed the post that I quoted.

Trunk Monkey said:

Rule number 1: give up the bag immediately

Rule number 2: never forget rule number one.

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which was in response to this post,

Blacksmoke said:

I am frequently surprise to see armed couriers carrying their bag in their gun hand. Often wondered if they are carrying s second concealed piece. Seems unwise but they must have their reasons. Occasionally I see one with his weapon in hand and the other gripping the bag. That seems smarter. Anyone have experience with that?

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Aaaahhhh ... sorry, my fault for expecting the quoted text to provide proper/complete context for the response.

I failed to remember that off-the-path exchange from 11 days ago.