Ultimate 9mm

A 9mm 1911 with a frame mounted optic would meet those requirements, or you're looking for irons?

I have to ask - to what end? Because on the surface, all I see is lots of silliness in this pursuit.

If you're looking for fixed barrel 9mm's, the only thing I can really think of is to dig through Pardini/Feinwerkbau types and look for a conversion opportunity. You'll gain nothing, and lose money and accuracy by swapping to the 9mm, but if you think that would be the "ultimate" target pistol, I'd expect it could be built.

While I must admit this is what I feel separates the Ruger MK series 22LR pistols from the
competition, nothing comes to mind.

A Nambu-style slide, on a competition 9mm. Hmmmm...

I really like my Springfield "Loaded" 9mm 1911.
All steel, adjustable sights, aftermarket mags hold 10 (been using Brownells mags they work well and decent price)
Came with a couple mags, decent holster, mag loader around $1000.
Mine is a couple years old so I don't know what changes they may have made to it.


I have a couple XDs (compact and subcompact), a Sig Dark Elite P226, Taraus PT99 in 9mm but the 1911 9mm is by far my favorite range toy.
I probably have 15-20k rounds thru it no issues. Feeds everything I give it (will feed empty cases) just a fun gun.
Shoots as well as I can.

Sights are fixed to the slide however so it doesn't meat that requirement for you.

I did not say "ultimate target pistol", but "ultimate 9mm"

Click to expand...

I'm looking for an "ultimate" 9mm target pistol

Click to expand...

Making the gun 9mm, and wanting it to be something more suitable for fine work than a High Point means a locking system more intricate than a straight blowback gun. That usually means no fixed barrel, and certainly means no simple,light bolt like a Ruger Mk 1/2/3 has.

There are few fixed barrel semi autos over the .380 or 9x18 mak power level, and even fewer where either of the sights are mounted on the barrel, and I can't think of any at all where both sights are.

I can almost see doing something like that with a Desert Eagle, but of course a 9mm DE would be a mite odd.


Curious to see what anyone can think of that would be close.

The fixed barrel, straight blowback design of 22 pistols doesnt lend it self well to the 9mm cartridge. I would think you would need to be looking at something with a delayed action. Maybe a gas system. Do they make Desert Eagle type guns in 9mm?

Edit: I didn't read last post. He pretty much said the same thing that I just did.

Sounds like a broom handle Mauser...

In reality, what you are looking for is a Smith & Wesson Performance Center PPC-"Limited". Pretty much the ultimate 9mm target pistol.
I've got 3!
5906PC, made for IDPA (has DPA00xx serial#). I've won many matches with it to include Nationals. Held a National record with it briefly, beaten by another 5906PC (NRA service semi-auto, max bbl length, 5"). Currently held by custom built 5" M1911 that met rules...)
5" PPC-9 Limited, also shot a national record with it (tied existing record, perfect score Match #7).
6" PPC-9 Limited. Very heavy gun. Also very accurate but not up to other 2 older guns. (It "only" shoots 1.7" at 50yds...).

The two "Limited" guns were limited to L.E. sales on Dept letterhead to l.e. Officers. The 5906PC wasn't so restricted. 5,000 made 1997-98. Got mine through Bangers Shooters Supply, Birmingham, Al.
FWIW, I've got a production 5906 that with GOOD ammo, will also shoot a "possible" (480-48x) in the NRA "production semi-auto" match. A "good" M1911 will also be capable.
Probably not what you were looking to hear...
You can have cheap, accurate, or reliable. Pick two. Accuracy and reliability "ain't" cheap...

And by the way, you did say TARGET. Read your op.

Luger?

The Wolf Ultramatic meets most of your wishes, except that it has a high capacity magazine. Maybe that could be plugged if you live in a repressive jurisdiction.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/706089514

I can meet all your criteria except one with a revolver.

beag_nut said:

I know there are countless slide-on-frame pistols out there (a la Colt 1911's), just as there were the same for the .22LR before Ruger. But Bill Ruger broke the common mold by his design

Click to expand...

The Colt Woodsman was around for about 30yrs before Ruger came out with the Standard, or even before Ruger was founded. The fixed barrel, blowback design wasn't novel. It was affordable and accurate.

The answers above describing the issues with a fixed barrel, (some manner of) delayed blowback action, 9mm pistol are exemplifying the silliness I'm referring to in this pursuit. There's a reason you don't see them... Consider the design requirements incorporated to the Luger, or frankly, incorporated into the Savage A17 rifle - the delayed blowback action isn't something many companies have mastered. Consider the fact the Ultramatic design didn't make it - for a reason.

Armored farmer said:

I can meet all your criteria except one with a revolver.

Click to expand...

This was what I was thinking - a revolver would suit all of the other arbitrary design requirements, save being a semi-auto. Of course, none of the 9mm revolvers are famously accurate.

The Hogue Avenger has non-reciprocating sights but I don't know if they ever made a 9mm. Read about it from ten years ago
http://www.m1911.org/hogueavenger.htm

I surmise that the lack of what I seek may simply be the result of designers' not having a reason to look for a challenge.

Click to expand...

Guns being usually designed for the purpose of making a marketable product, designers are rarely interested in the challenge of making something especially complicated or needlessly difficult to make work. Seeing as it's pretty unlikely that a gun of the type that you're describing would actually be more accurate or more, pretty much anything, than other guns we already have, there really isn't any reason to try to overcome such a challenge.

beag_nut said:

On the other hand, a Desert Eagle, weighing more than 72 ounces, should have the mass available to handle a 9mm. I surmise that the lack of what I seek may simply be the result of designers' not having a reason to look for a challenge. Perhaps the 9mm cartridge is not capable of meeting the challenge, considering all factors?

Click to expand...

Also consider that DE makes a DE357, which is close in bore diameter to a 9mm. Recoil springs would have to be lightened,
but you do have the standard 6" barrel, and AFAIK, the 10" barrel is available for the .357. You would need some serious chamber
work, and some kind of modified mags, but it's the only game in town, the way I see it.

Edit: my research indicates the 9mm at just under .355, which would probably be
a couple thousandths too small for the DE357, without getting a DE barrel blank
milled especially for a 9mm, for competition shooting purposes.

Ahhh, but the arbitrary constraints of the original post say no DE. The rear sights reciprocate with the slide, so no-go.

I think Armored Farmer has found your answer-- a Luger. Start throwing your pocket change into a very large basket every night.

9mm single stack 1911 with frame mounted optic meets all the requirements, unless irons is a non-stated requirement.

the only thing I can think of that meets your entire list are antiques, though they exist. The Luger 08 comes to mind, and the Steyr 07/12 if you like exotic looks. Goodluck, its an extensive list. Not to be a jackass, but CZ75, Sig 210, nicer 1911's, and other very tight locking pistols don't have an issue with the sights on the slide.