Frustrating powder measuring

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Usually the weight that comes with the scale is the calibration weight and is quite a bit heavier than any powder charge you are most likely ever going to be weighing.
The cal weight that came with my scale is 50 grams. (771.6gr)
I like to have check weights that are close to the weight of what I am weighing.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...&qid=1518374952&sr=8-2&keywords=check+weights
has 10mg (.15gr), 20mg (.30gr) 100mg , 200mg, 500mg, 1g (15.4gr) and some heavier ones. (plastic tweezers are lousy but I have tweezers)
Class M2 so more tolerance allowed than more expensive "better" class check weights.
https://www.troemner.com/media/downloadablepdfs/tolerance/weight_tolerances.pdf
Still, M2 allowed tolerance on 100mg. allowed 1.6mg, 3mg on a gram, 3mg is .046gr so close enough I would say for reloading use.
has 10mg (.15gr), 20mg (.30gr) 100mg (1.54gr) , 200mg, 500mg, 1g (15.4gr)
 
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D.B. Cooper said:
OK. NOW...I'm pissed.

We've discussed before how Unique doesn't measure well. I get that. But this is getting beyond stupid.

I've got a new box of projectiles and I'm trying...unsuccessfully...to load up 10 round batches, increasing the powder load in every batch. (So I can test several different loads with one trip to the range.)

I can't get two charges the same. I started out at 6.5 grains. 10 rounds later I was 5.8 grains. Moved up to 7 grains. 10 rounds later I was at 6 grains. I reset the measure to 7 grains exactly. It repeated 3 times. I touched nothing for five minutes. Threw another charge...6.3 grains. I'm seeing +/- 0.5 grains or more between charges. And totally random. Sometimes high, sometimes low. And it's really pissing me off. I've got 1-2 full grains weight difference between random loaded cartridges. (I realize that there will be some slight differences between individual case weights.)

I get that pistol ammo doesn't require the precision of rifle ammo, but it seems to me that, at least for testing loads, I need something more accurate than this. I'm literally to the point of just turning the turret press into a single stage press and using a powder trickler to weigh every. single. charge.

At this point, I'm thinking I should forget about loading up batches with 0.1 or 0.2 grain differences and jump up to 0.5 grain differences because I have no confidence that the powder measure will even produce such a small increase in powder. (I have to turn and turn and turn the key on the powder measure just to see more than 0.1 change.)

Using a Lee auto-drum and Lee dies for 44 special. 200 grain Lead RNFP. (Don't even get me started on COAL...I had to seat 0.1" deeper than Lyman's specification just to get the case mouth up to the crimp groove. At Lyman's sec of 1.537", the case mouth barely covers the lubrication ring.)

What a craptastic day.
Click to expand...
If you don't use an O-ring between the riser and the measure, this will allow the measure to fully activate, lining up the drop holes, nothing left on a ledge. Also make sure you are using the 44 Special expander rather than the shorter 44 Mag.
 
Dudedog said:
I like to have check weights that are close to the weight of what I am weighing.
Click to expand...
+1. If I am using 4.0 gr powder charge, I want to verify my scale with 4.0 gr of check weights.

Navy_Chief said:
WAOW $18 scale ... that weighs to .01 grain.
Click to expand...
Did you mean .1 gr?

Yes, I agree with WAOAW digital scale. When so many members recommended the $18 scale, I decided to test it and it is accurate enough for reloading.
 
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bds said:
Did you mean .1 gr?
Click to expand...

Nope, I have another scale that will weight repeatably to .01gr (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_NpkGAbV1JTEW8) that I have validated my check weights with. I don’t reload with the higher resolution scale because it does not detect powder trickling reliably; it seems to want to settle on a weight when the pan is added and try’s to keep that measurement if powder is added to slowly. For static weights it works wonderfully though so it does duty weighing cases, bullets, and validating other measurements.
 
Navy_Chief said:
Nope, I have another scale that will weight repeatably to .01gr (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_NpkGAbV1JTEW8)
Click to expand...
I have that same scale but it will not read to .01 gr.

The best I could verify repeatably was with .15 gr check weight (Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...powder-scale-for-my-dad.829460/#post-10700518

Unlike WAOAW and GEM 20 digital scales, my Smart Weigh High Precision digital scale won't keep zero and will drift. I have changed batteries and recalibrated several times with no improvement. I thought about returning it but many reviews report drifting zero as a common issue with this scale.
 
bds said:
I have that same scale but it will not read to .01 gr.

The best I could verify repeatably was with .15 gr check weight (Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...powder-scale-for-my-dad.829460/#post-10700518

Unlike WAOAW and GEM 20 digital scales, my Smart Weigh High Precision digital scale won't keep zero and will drift. I have changed batteries and recalibrated several times with no improvement. I thought about returning it but many reviews report drifting zero as a common issue with this scale.
Click to expand...
Mine is absolutely repeatable, it weighs any all my check weights as exactly the same weight every time I check them. I don’t have a traceable check weight set so I have no idea what the actual accuracy is but it is repeatable within it’s precision of .01gr.
 
Mine will display grains to 0.00 grains. And no, it will not detect one or even 4 pieces of 1/4"x1/4" pieces of 20 lb copy paper even though it's advertised as a milligram scale (4 pieces should read around .2 gr). It will read 10 mg check weight as 12 to 16 mg and after taking off the check weight, 6 mg will display. Pressing "TARE" temporarily zeros the scale but it won't maintain zero. At best, it is essentially a .2 gr resolution scale instead of .02 gr which is not practical when I need .1 gr resolution for reloading.

Having .02 gr resolution, the scale should read one piece of paper as .04 or .06 gr (due to .02 gr resolution) and two pieces as .08, .10 or .12 gr.

In comparison, WAOAW scale will read down to 10 mg check weight as 10 mg and GEM20 scale will read down to 5 mg check weight as 5 mg. And both scales will maintain zero.

I sent an email to the manufacturer - http://betterbasics.com/contact

index.php
 

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Ton of great advice from all you, and I appreciate it.

So I did pretty much all of what people have suggested here. Then I re-calibrated the scale. (No beam scale yet.) Then I got set up for 7.5 grains of Unique. Operated the press the same way every time. (I opted to not tap on anything as that seemed too random and too difficult to repeat.) I just finished loading 150 rounds of ammo, weighing every tenth round. I never saw anything below 7.5 grains or above 7.7 grains. MUCH better.
 
Dudedog said:
Usually the weight that comes with the scale is the calibration weight and is quite a bit heavier than any powder charge you are most likely ever going to be weighing.
The cal weight that came with my scale is 50 grams. (771.6gr)
I like to have check weights that are close to the weight of what I am weighing.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...&qid=1518374952&sr=8-2&keywords=check+weights
has 10mg (.15gr), 20mg (.30gr) 100mg , 200mg, 500mg, 1g (15.4gr) and some heavier ones. (plastic tweezers are lousy but I have tweezers)
Class M2 so more tolerance allowed than more expensive "better" class check weights.
https://www.troemner.com/media/downloadablepdfs/tolerance/weight_tolerances.pdf
Still, M2 allowed tolerance on 100mg. allowed 1.6mg, 3mg on a gram, 3mg is .046gr so close enough I would say for reloading use.
has 10mg (.15gr), 20mg (.30gr) 100mg (1.54gr) , 200mg, 500mg, 1g (15.4gr)
Click to expand...
I have the Lyman check weight set. It stays out for the reloading process.
 
I didn't notice if it was mentioned, but, air movement. Any slight change of air movement, whether (down drafts) breathing or forced air/heat, tend to effect scales.
 
Digital scales do need to warm up.
Most always I'll need to turn it back on after it auto shuts down.
 
I never saw anything below 7.5 grains or above 7.7 grains. MUCH better.
Click to expand...
That's about as good as your going to get with Unique, call it 7.6 + or -.1

What made the measure happy? Did you threaten to tap it with say a, hhhmmmm, a baseball bat:)
 
"Weighing powder in brass with a new primer. I zero the scale every time. I have not calibrated the scale since opening this can of powder. Is that something I should be doing at the start of every loading session? I am running on AC power."

I don't take anything for granted. I double check my scale's zero and check calibration on my digital. I double check powder measure adjustment. I double check every die adjustment. Every time I sit down at the bench. In 30+ years of reloading I had one squib (1970) and no kabooms. I haven't had to pull any loads down because of erratic/over charges in my loads. I batch load and my methods aren't the fastest (but I don't care) but all my guns are still in one piece...
 
D.B. Cooper said:
Ton of great advice from all you, and I appreciate it.

So I did pretty much all of what people have suggested here. Then I re-calibrated the scale. (No beam scale yet.) Then I got set up for 7.5 grains of Unique. Operated the press the same way every time. (I opted to not tap on anything as that seemed too random and too difficult to repeat.) I just finished loading 150 rounds of ammo, weighing every tenth round. I never saw anything below 7.5 grains or above 7.7 grains. MUCH better.
Click to expand...
Good for you. That’s the kind of accuracy I normally get with unique. You could probably tweak it by a tenth of a grain but that’s really close enough.

PM me if you want the Lee beam scale.
 
Try Accurate # 5 . It'll do what Unique does & meters alot better . I use Unique & it's always been one of the worst along with 700 & 800X to get precise charges with . The size of the flakes in the Alliant & IMR shotgun / pistol powders makes them a PITA . Wait 'til you try 800X it's damn near a weigh every charge powder , but like Unique it does it's purpose quite well .
 
I loaded another 200 rounds tonight. Same exact set-up. (I didn't touch anything overnight.) Did everything the same way. It settled down to 7.0 grains overnight. Made a slight adjustment and good to go. 200 rounds, weighed every 10th charge, all of them between 7.4 and 7.6. (7.5 is my target.) The last weighed charge came out of a nearly empty hopper. It held pretty steady from full to almost empty.
 
It seems this thread has changed from a powder measure discussion into a digital scale thread.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the throw 10 charges and weigh 10 charges (together) method yet.
That takes the weight out of the 7 grain range into the 70's and any error will be magnified in the total weight measured.

I put away my electronic scale away after tracking it's errors to the fluorescent lights, but will admit that was a while ago, and digital scales have improved since then.
:D
 
bds said:
Sorry for the thread hijack but I WAS initially responding to OP's post on digital scale on post #49 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-powder-measuring.832438/page-2#post-10757220
Click to expand...

And he was responding to someone's inquiry about the scale used, and I see someone else has mentioned the 10x method early on, but didn't read where the OP tried it yet.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-powder-measuring.832438/page-2#post-10757177
so I guess my complete post falls into the "oops-never mind" category :uhoh:.
sorry,
:D
 
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When you were getting the +- .5 grain variation, the powder must have been bridging. I can't imagine that a scale would show that much error, but maybe it's possible. Tapping the hopper every few rounds and checking every 10 rounds probably needs to be SOP with Unique.
 
I thought it tracked over to scales because of the OPs frustration with powder throw variations and replies were to explain how some scales can drift if not kept in check.
 
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