How much are we willing to give up?

coloradokevin said:

If the left really wants compromise, here's one I'll live with:

1) They get universal background checks.

2) We get the hearing protection act passed without being watered down. We get the machine-gun registry reopened for all of us who weren't old enough to buy these guns in 1986. The $200 tax stamp is removed for NFA items.

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Do you really believe that the FBI is totally deleting the names of individuals that are called in when buying a gun? (The same FBI that said that Hillary's emails could not be recovered from her computer but other government employees were able to ).

As my computer expert son says "Nothing is ever totally deleted from a computer."

Universal background checks is just another name for registration of gun owners.

Part of renegotiating with someone in this type of scenario that wants to change an exsiting contract is putting the burden on them as to why it needs to be renegotiated in the 1st place.

They say because kids are being killed.

We say murder is illegal no matter how it's committed.

They say but the current laws aren't enough.

We say, then the existing laws aren't being enforced enough and offer to support of enforcing existing laws 1st.



Over simplified conversation but thats the basics of negotiations in this type of scenario.

M118LR said:

So what should we offer as a solution other than more firearm legislature?

It's going to take something to placate the beast.

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Anti 2A groups must be resisted not appeased.
There is no compromise that will satisfy them.
Their goal is to abolish the 2A and they would do it today if they could. Any concession given is a step toward their goal, not an end to their demands.

Sistema1927 said:

What part of "shall not be infringed" do they not understand?

Stand firm, keep your powder dry.

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I've got a bent Carcano clip they can have...

Once you give in to insanity, it takes over...

It'll probably be bump stocks. Won't do anything, but it will be the sacrificial lamb.

The solution is to try to find what has gone wrong with society. SSRIs? Lack of morals? More mentally ill on the streets than getting help?

There are a bunch of variables and no one in power wants to really know why. Easier to just ban the instrument of the broken human than fix why the human came to be broken. This country is churning out and shuffling around people who are disturbed. Until that is fixed...well, more of the same.

danez71 said:

Part of renegotiating with someone in this type of scenario that wants to change an exsiting contract is putting the burden on them as to why it needs to be renegotiated in the 1st place.

They say because kids are being killed.

We say murder is illegal no matter how it's committed.

They say but the current laws aren't enough.

We say, then the existing laws aren't being enforced enough and offer to support of enforcing existing laws 1st.



Over simplified conversation but thats the basics of negotiations in this type of scenario.

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To expand on this....

How they have succeeded and we have failed in negotiations is this.

0 = no gun control
100 = total ban on everything


They say 100 and we give up 10 in order to not give up 100. Only giving up 10 is way better than giving up 100. Riiiiiight?

That's Negotiations 101.


Next year, they say 100 again. We give up 10 because 10 is way better than giving up 100. Riiiiight?

NO.. WRONG!

We've failed by allowing 10 to be the new 0 and negotiating from there so now we have given up 20 in actuality.

Thats Negotiations 102. Our side has failed Negotiating 102



Rinse and repeat until we have a just but a small fraction of what we once had and then stupidly start OFFERING another 10 because we know they want 100.

Our side has continued to fail Negotiating 102 repeatedly.

M118LR said:

Hunters can only field shotguns with plugs, those that can still hunt with a rifle are also strictly limited to how many rounds can be chambered,

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CraigC said:

The three shot plug thing is a migratory game bird regulation. Not really the same thing.

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And the "those that can still hunt with rifles are also strictly limited to how many rounds can be chambered" thing has nothing to do with "how much are we willing to give up" either.
In the first place, unless you're talking about a double or triple barreled rifle, you can only "chamber" one round at a time. In the second place, the number of spare rounds you can have in your hunting rifle's magazine depends on the size of the magazine. It's not "limited" by some kind of anti 2A regulation, at least not here in Idaho yet. Magnum hunting rifles generally hold fewer rounds in the magazine than non-magnum hunting rifles. That's because magnum rounds are typically bigger around, not because of government regulation.

It'll probably be bump stocks. Won't do anything,

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It sure will! The BATFE has been over it and over it, it’s legal. The device isn’t a machinegun and using it with a semiauto doesn’t make it a machine gun.

““Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns,” POTUS

Having the Justice Department ruling something that is legal, illegal seems like a bad idea to me. If it’s a rate of fire issue (it is because we already know the combination isn’t a machine gun) what next a Federal declaration like some ranges, where if we fire more than one round a second we become a criminal?

This is pretty important because everyone, everywhere should understand because you can bump fire a semiauto with any stock or even none at all.

The media is fanning the flames when they are actually complicit by glorifying these shooters.

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Absolutely! These scum should get the same treatment that was applied to the person that shot President McKinley!

Bet you had to Google it

So what should we offer as a solution other than more firearm legislature?
It's going to take something to placate the beast.

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How about we have a "Million Gun March"

““Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns,” POTUS

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Do they plan on banning Jerry Miculek? With a semi AR-15 he came within an eye-blink of being as fast as a full auto AKM and he scored far better hits on target! The video is on youTube.

jmorris said:

It sure will! The BATFE has been over it and over it, it’s legal. The device isn’t a machinegun and using it with a semiauto doesn’t make it a machine gun.

““Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns,” POTUS

Having the Justice Department ruling something that is legal, illegal seems like a bad idea to me. If it’s a rate of fire issue (it is because we already know the combination isn’t a machine gun) what next a Federal declaration like some ranges, where if we fire more than one round a second we become a criminal?

This is pretty important because everyone, everywhere should understand because you can bump fire a semiauto with any stock or even none at all.

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Not really what I meant.

I meant it would do nothing to curb crime. NOT, that it wouldn't do harm to our rights or snowball into a huge mess.

All banning bumpfire stocks will do is set a very dangerous precedent.

AlexanderA said:

Nothing will be done legislatively on the gun issue, on the federal level, this year. Therefore, this is not the time to be talking about a "compromise." (I'm not so sure about the state level. Fla. Gov. Rick Scott has already caved to the antigunners on age limits and assault weapons.)

What is happening is that the antigunners (in connection with the Democrats) are positioning themselves for the fall 2018 election. Specifically, the gun issue is a wedge to use in upscale suburban congressional districts now held by Republicans. (Example: Barbara Comstock in Virginia's 10th District.) That's where control of Congress will flip, if it does so. The Republicans are in danger of becoming a purely rural party. That would put them into a permanent minority.

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It’s why we need an electoral college for all statewide and federal offices.

And while I don’t think much of Comstock how can we help her win? And how can we defeate Tim “No Crisis Can Pass Without Antigun Statements” Kaine.

My tweets to @realDonaldTrump

Ken Henkel‏ @SsgKen
@realDonaldTrump If you want to put in a ban on the useless bump-stocks, please negotiate suppressors off of the NFA'34 $200 tax as a compromise. Perhaps start with a bolt action with a fixed suppressor on the end. I am retired Army who gets hearing aids from the VA. [Added; being the 11B guarding the perimeter of the 155mm firing charge 7 (max) all night will do it.]

@realDonaldTrump One aid to armed teachers is a series of numbered microphones/WiFi that send gun noises to everyone's smartphone or tablet app with locations.

Ken Henkel‏ @SsgKen older
@realDonaldTrump With today's 42-megapixel digital cameras, could you please request the still image photographers to stop using cameras with a noisy shutter?

Adding;

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise the age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!
end
**********************
If Obamacare can pay for preventative measures like free flu shots, condoms, etc, then the Government should subsidize gun noise suppressors.

If the Law moves to 21, I would hope that 18-year olds are allowed a lesser weapon than an AR15 in 5.56 NATO like a 9mm PC Carbine Rifle From Ruger which will be an excellent weapon for 110-pound women in their apartments but which will not kill effectively at 350 yards like Las Vegas shooter. Also, return to age 21 to vote except in times of a draft into the Army.

GIVE UP NOTHING AT THIS TIME. NOTHING!

M118LR said:

So what should we offer as a solution other than more firearm legislature?

It's going to take something to placate the beast.

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The only way the beast will be placated is when all firearms are banned. That is the goal, nothing less. Neville Chamberlain tried to placate the beast and we all know how that worked out. The left in this country are the true fascists, not conservatives.

George Dickel said:

The only way the beast will be placated is when all firearms are banned. That is the goal, nothing less. Neville Chamberlain tried to placate the beast and we all know how that worked out. The left in this country are the true fascists, not conservatives.

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+1

Gun owners are not responsible for 'placating' the beast; we are responsible for opposing and defeating it. Entirely different mindset.


Larry

BSA1 said:

Do you really believe that the FBI is totally deleting the names of individuals that are called in when buying a gun? (The same FBI that said that Hillary's emails could not be recovered from her computer but other government employees were able to ).

As my computer expert son says "Nothing is ever totally deleted from a computer."

Universal background checks is just another name for registration of gun owners.

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I don't disagree with you, and I sure hope you didn't read my post to imply that I'm a supporter of UBCs.

But, I was trying to demonstrate the difference between a "compromise" and the usual "we'll just take what we want from you and call it a common sense compromise".

And, I'm not trying to imply that my personal opinions on the subject are necessarily what is best for the 2nd Amendment, but I already live in a UBC state, and I really want to be able to buy an M134 minigun for less than the cost of a nice house

Not one inch........IMO.

I thought the line in the sand was pretty clearly drawn in December 1791.

The attitude that law abiding firearms owners should give up anything, is unreasonable. The outrage is oblique and manufactured by a Socialist regime that seizes upon tragedy to attempt to disarm the American public, to further what are ultimately totalitarian and communist political ideals. So far they have: Flooded the country with criminal foreign nationals, allowed ISIS and like minded groups to flourish, closed the only prisoner of war prison (Gitmo) and returned enemy combatants to fight and kill Americans; fabricated a smear campaign against a Presidential candidate, and then blamed the resulting the collusion on the Republican party. No, I'm done. Until they want to back off, I'm done.
Your neighbor kills three people in a drunk driving crash, now the government wants your keys, to confiscate your car, they are dangerous. That, my friend is the premise of gun control!!!

Well, for me, the premise of this whole thread is wrong. What's going on now has nothing to do with how much gun-owners may be willing to give up ...

What's going on now has everything to do with minimizing what's going to be taken away from us.

If the anti-gun left wants to dialogue, and the law-abiding gun-owners of America either refuse to show up at the table, or do show up at the table but then clearly state a refusal to engage in dialogue, we've already lost the most important thing -- our image. Frankly, I think we just appear obtuse when we say things to the uneducated such as "What part of 'shall not be infringed' don't you understand?" or "The 2nd Amendment is my concealed carry permit." This stuff means nothing to the non-gun folks out there.

We simply continue to preach to the choir. The left continues to portray American gun-owners as rural, redneck, racist trailer-park dwellers or farmers of dubious intellect -- refusing to put forward intelligent, articulate folks from our side to counter the anti-gun arguments is conceding everything.

Universal background checks are coming everywhere and to a state near you ... The bump-stock ban, as stupid and ineffectual as it may be, is imminent. We're at a crossroads right now, and if we're not communicating with our legislators NOW, all the internet pontificating and hand-wringing is useless. Yeah, that "line in the sand" was clearly drawn in December 1791 ... but guess what? The Bill of Rights means nothing to our adversaries, so we need to frame our opposition to further gun control effects much differently. Logic, statistics and facts for a start. Get off the internet and send out those e-mails and snail-mail letters. I can quote my pocket-carry Constitution all I want to my non-gun-owning co-workers, friends and relatives, but that's not what's going to sway them.

All the gun people I know up here talked a lot of smack when I-594 was on the ballot, but guess what? Not all of them voted, and now we have UBCs in my state. I'm getting the same feeling right now as I had in November of 2014 ...

Politicians need to be reminded "I'm the NRA , and I vote".

Oh, right ... because that's worked so well for us thus far ... [sigh].

EIB0879 said:

Politicians need to be reminded "I'm the NRA , and I vote".

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Only works in certain districts. I'm in a district where politicians actually gain points by castigating the NRA. There are far more anti-NRA voters here than NRA voters (even though the NRA national headquarters is in the district).

I am not willing to give another inch. We have compromised enough - especially when guns are not the problem.

Many in the liberal media are now going beyond background checks to licensing, training, and law enforcement approval before getting the green light to purchase a firearm. They will never quit until every American citizen is disarmed.