Match bullet journey

I'm sure by now you guys know I have a goofy savage 223rem with a short throat and I would like to share this journey with you all.

Well a member here (I wont name him unless he is okay with it) offered up 11 69gr SMK, 73gr ELD, 75gr A max, 77gr SMK, 77gr SMK tipped. I was concerned with shooting longer match bullets due to the throat issue so he sent me some to try so I didn't get myself in the hole buying a bunch of bullets that may not work. I started today with LC09 2 times fired brass, FL sized on an RCBS FL size die but only knocked the shoulder back 2k with a Hornady headspace comparator, cci BR small rifle primers and H322 powder. Only having 10 rounds to test I loaded 3 rounds of each weight slightly over book minimum. All my reading shows H322 and H335 would be my best bet as these are the only two powders I have on hand listed for these weights. I will fire my 3 test rounds from a front rest and rear bag at 100yards and if it doesn't like that charge weight I will adjust it or switch over to H335. I figure if I can get 3 shots in an inch or lower I have a winner to do further load workup with. I figured run each bullet weight about 10k off the lands for good measure and adjust when I find a bullet the rifle likes. I hope to shoot 300yard matches this summer so ive got a lot of testing to do.

Unfortunately it was pretty cold here today so I wasn't able to test these but I hope to Sunday or Monday.

Blue68f100 said:

Have you confirmed that your not into the lands? With a short throat chamber you may have to run a shorter OAL.

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I forgot to mention I did have to run these short. The 77gr SMK is well over half way in the case so it got the start load instead of just above.

Varminterror said:

So where did you end up for your COAL’s for each bullet? Would you mind sharing a list? I’d be interested in comparing where you come out.

Also - did I forget to pack the 75 Bergers? I didn’t see them on your list above, the second time they weren’t listed. I must have forgotten to put them in, but I know I packaged them, and I’ve been reorganizing my reloading room the last couple wks, so I’d think I’d have found the package if they’re still here.... sometimes my brain falls out though, so maybe I did forget to pack them.

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You did. I actually found them last night as they fell off the stand and were hiding from me. I went back and looked at our PM and said wait a minute i'm missing something so i went looking and found them. My small table next to the bench or a mess. Its got cleaning supplies, manuals, old targets, empty ammo boxes, etc so sometime things get covered or even knocked off and i find them when i do my monthly cleanings.

I will also throw together my OAL results. Something last minute came up shortly after posting this so everything was put on hold. When i get home and before i head to the range ill break out my janky calipers and measure them up and share it. I will say that 77SMK looks awfully short compared to the others.

Well I made it to the range today and its not looking good!!

I started off with about 5 fouling shots of junk fmj ammo because I cleaned the snot out of the barrel and then tested about 6-9 Nosler BT and let the barrel cool for about 15min and switched over to 75gr A max with H322 and cci BR primer. I steadied the crosshairs on the diamond at 100yards and fired the first shot of 3 and hit 2 1/4'' low and right. second shot was about 3/4'' from where I wanted it and the 3rd shot was about 2'' left.

73gr Hornady ELD match also over H322 and cci BR. First shot fired at the left diamond was 2.5'' low and a hair right, shot #2 was 2'' low and #3 2.5'' left and low. I'm kind of torn what to do here. The 73gr ELD M almost shot an inch. Pics are below.

Bfh_auto said:

Those look like they are trying to destabilize.
I had targets look like that with the 103 eld-x in 240 wby. Was the target tight against the backerboard?

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Yep. Pinned on all 4 corners with those nails with the rubber washer. The 75gr holes look just a tad odd IMO with a slight tare at the 11 oclock but the 73gr 2 have perfect holes and the 3rd has a slight tare at the 8 clockish. It was funny I just looked at my note card for the 75gr and usually if it shoots a good group it gets a smiley face next to it but this one got Hell NO!!! lol.

I have to say I have never had a bullet shoot this poorly. I'm guessing the rifle doesn't like them much. I am thankful that @Varminterror was kind enough to send me a handful to try out because I wouldn't be a happy camper with 200 of these bullets.

Varminterror said:

Woof, that's no bueno. How much H322 did you have pushing them? How far off of the lands? Any idea on your velocity?

Curiosity would kill me if I were a cat - in your shoes, I'd load up more of the 75's and shoot them at 300 or 500, on a 3ft x 3ft target, to see if I could catch it tearing. I don't like to read group size as destabilization unless I see obvious signs of keyholing. Unless I have a substantial smear/glaze on the hole, or a truly oblong hole, I don't read paper tears as keyholes. Really surprises me you had THAT poor of precision with the 75 A-max, I've shot them from 1:9" rifles for years and never had groups that big. Typically, if I wasn't pushing them hard enough, I'd be 1-2moa at 100, opening up at 200+, and keyholing 400+

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About 10k off the lands.

I don't have my card in front of me but I loaded 3 at 20.6 range with Hodgdon start being 20gr. I figured with having the short throat and being longer bullets I would keep it kind of low. 50-55GR bullets shoot very well at the low charges that's why I'm surprised these shot that poorly. Cheap AE fmj keeps them an inch to 1.5 at 100yards.

WestKentucky said:

Just how short is your throat? Something seems REALLY off if it’s puking on everything. Any guess as to round count on the rifle? Seems like the throat should be migrating forward slowly but surely, especially if you were loading them somewhat hot, but I understand not running them hot with a short throat. What does LC FMJ do on paper?

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Its a bolt gun so cant shoot the LC fmj but I have some AE that was given to me and I use it to foul the barrel after cleanings and it keeps under 2''

ArchAngelCD said:

What is the twist rate of your barrel again?

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1-9

someguy2800 said:

I don’t think you have enough twist for the 70+ grainers. The 69’s or a Hornady 68 should work.

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Those are the next step. I was running out of time last night so fired the heavies first. Probably tomorrow i will try the others i have.

Damon555 said:

A couple questions for you:

Why do you want to shoot such a heavy bullet? Are you shooting 300+ yards?

Have you seated any of those bullets to the book recommended overall length?

How did you measure your distance to the lands?

I have loaded many, many rounds with great success by seating them to the length that they recommended in the manual. When I first started reloading all I knew were the basics. No clue what "distance from the lands" was at the time. I learned that it might not be the most accurate OAL but it's a good starting point and it usually isn't all that far off for the average rifle.

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Yes, 300 yard matches.

I cannot seat to book OAL due to having a short throat on the rifle. I've tried about 5 different bullet makes and models and cannot seat a single one to book OAL.

Bolt lift method and seat about 10k off the lands.

Blue68f100 said:

You said you cleaned the barrel and shot some cheap ammo to foul it. It's always best to foul with the same powder your using. And some times it takes quite a few shots for the barrel to settle back down. The only reason I clean a barrel now is when the accuracy starts dropping off, or switching powders.

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The FMJ i shot were hand loaded Hornady FMJ with benchmark and then i fired about 10 rounds of Nosler BT with benchmark let the barrel cool down for about 15 min and fired the Match rounds.

I'm curious why the different powder fouling being in the barrel would give me such crazy groups?

Damon555 said:

Forgive me for coming late to the party. You've obviously been talking about this rifle on the forum.....but I haven't seen the other threads.

I have owned a lot of Savage rifles over the years.....most of them in 223 Remington. Never has one not allowed me to seat the bullets to the recommended OAL in a reloading manual. Either something is wrong with the chamber or you've misinterpreted some of your information. A throat that short has got to be a mistake one way or another.

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When i first purchased this rifle i purchased a bunch of different ammo and was also given a bunch of different stuff including some match ammo. Not know what i was doing until i began reloading i would chamber a round and have it be somewhat hard to chamber and sometimes when we called cold range and i needed to extract that round the bolt wouldn't lift and get stuck. One ammo that comes to mind was some wolf FMJ i would need to lay the rifle down on the bench and smack the bolt open! Once i started reloading and realized what was happening i gave all that ammo away. I tried factory rounds in the 68gr region and also had issues with the bolt becoming stuck when trying to extract a live round. I started using the Hornady OAL tool with modified case and came to the conclusion with that tool 55gr V max which is my favorite bullet was into the lands at 2.235-2.240 with book being 2.250. Using the bolt lift method recommended here by taking the firing pin and ejector out it was confirmed 2.240ish was my stopping point. I did this with FMJ, SP, Nosler BT, 50-55gr V max and not one single bullet hit book OAL recommendations. 55gr SP w/c when seated per bolt lift method and Hornady OAL tool the cannelure is covered by the brass ever so slightly.