Handguns and a Balanced Life

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John Joseph

John Joseph

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I read a few gun forums and it seems to me that handgun owners often suffer an imbalance not unlike other enthusiasts in other endeavors, but it seems more prevalent with handgunners.
Nearly all trap shooters don't obsess over trap shooting when off the range (and there is no shortage of OCD trap shooters!) Most are really decent fellows.
Handgunners, especially CCW holders sound like a very different kettle of fish no doubt because of the close contact with a loaded weapon for a good deal of the day.
Maybe because forums allow discussion of a topic we can't really discuss anywhere else that this seems so.
When I was carrying a duty revolver it was always on my mind that I had a .357 but it was seldom a concern---it was just there in case I needed it.
The less I thought about it, the better I was at doing the other 999 things(such as situational awareness) my job required. There were times for department qualifications, training, practicing on my own dime, and cleaning & maintenance of course, but outside of that my revolver was simply a tool like a hammer or drill.
When I had my first CCW, it was pretty much the same thing.

But have times changed or am I imagining some phantasm?

Too many posters (not here on The High Road, of course) sound excited about getting the chance to be in a gunfight. This mimics what I've noticed, sadly all too often in the LEO community as regards possibly to the current training protocols (OTOH a doper wielding two knives came at five deputies the other evening in a small neighboring town. The deputies would have been within their rights to shoot but they called a K-9 in to take the perp down, undoubtedly sparing the fellow's life as well as a considerable amount of ammunition.

This showed admirable self restraint.

Of course there are times when too much self restrain is suicidal, but (again) a balance does exist.
For a CCW holder this is an even greater issue (no CCW holder I know of has a police dog or carries a taser and mace on the Sam Browne) but all the "what if" scenarios I read on the internet, and the assumptions too many posters take leads me to wonder if a M113 and combat load out is what people think they need to safely go to the supermarket to pick up eggs and milk.
Displays of irrationality can't be good for the 2A.

Freedom of Speech you say? Yeah I hear you but how about not giving the Antis ammo to portray gun owners as closet sociopaths?

I wish there were more shooting forums that take the high road .
I just want to say thank you to the mods and admins who make this forum a true asset to the shooting sports!
 
John Joseph said:
I read a few gun forums and it seems to me that handgun owners often suffer an imbalance not unlike other enthusiasts in other endeavors, but it seems more prevalent with handgunners.
Nearly all trap shooters don't obsess over trap shooting when off the range (and there is no shortage of OCD trap shooters!) Most are really decent fellows.
Handgunners, especially CCW holders sound like a very different kettle of fish no doubt because of the close contact with a loaded weapon for a good deal of the day.
Maybe because forums allow discussion of a topic we can't really discuss anywhere else that this seems so.
When I was carrying a duty revolver it was always on my mind that I had a .357 but it was seldom a concern---it was just there in case I needed it.
The less I thought about it, the better I was at doing the other 999 things(such as situational awareness) my job required. There were times for department qualifications, training, practicing on my own dime, and cleaning & maintenance of course, but outside of that my revolver was simply a tool like a hammer or drill.
When I had my first CCW, it was pretty much the same thing.

But have times changed or am I imagining some phantasm?

Too many posters (not here on The High Road, of course) sound excited about getting the chance to be in a gunfight. This mimics what I've noticed, sadly all too often in the LEO community as regards possibly to the current training protocols (OTOH a doper wielding two knives came at five deputies the other evening in a small neighboring town. The deputies would have been within their rights to shoot but they called a K-9 in to take the perp down, undoubtedly sparing the fellow's life as well as a considerable amount of ammunition.

This showed admirable self restraint.

Of course there are times when too much self restrain is suicidal, but (again) a balance does exist.
For a CCW holder this is an even greater issue (no CCW holder I know of has a police dog or carries a taser and mace on the Sam Browne) but all the "what if" scenarios I read on the internet, and the assumptions too many posters take leads me to wonder if a M113 and combat load out is what people think they need to safely go to the supermarket to pick up eggs and milk.
Displays of irrationality can't be good for the 2A.

Freedom of Speech you say? Yeah I hear you but how about not giving the Antis ammo to portray gun owners as closet sociopaths?

I wish there were more shooting forums that take the high road .
I just want to say thank you to the mods and admins who make this forum a true asset to the shooting sports!
Click to expand...
True, they tend to frown on mall ninjas and part-time operators here. That's probably for the best.

As far as taking an APC to the Quikie-Mart for eggs? What's wrong with that? There was a fellow in Rockford where I grew up who drove his M59 to the store sometimes. They even had a special parking spot for him.... FLMM_-_M59_APC.jpg :)
 
John as someone who has been on the wrong end of a shooting on a college campus I find your post very offensive.

What you describe may be true on some forums, but folks here seem to be focused on protecting themselves, those they love and those around them. If it comes across as anything but that then you need to look at your biases.

The fact that you lump all of us who conceal carry into a broad group makes me believe that you don’t carry and you have little understanding of what’s involved. As someone whose never been trapped in a classroom unarmed with no exit, not windo to escape and a kid with a shotgun blasting the door apart, you have no clue what it’s like to be praying not to die and for the police to hurry up and get there.

I have, and it’s hard knowing that your conceal carry gun is locked in the glovebox in your car about 1000 feet away. It’s harder knowing that you could take a life. So yea, some of us laugh at some of the bravado because there is some. But that due to ego and a desire to feel safe and secure. Once you’ve been there, it’s hard hearing people like you, and people who want to outlaw my guns because they’re clueless.

Frankly I wish the college I worked at would have taken the money they gave to one of my peers to lobby against the 2nd Amendment and used it instead to study the shooting. I offered to share what I learned. Instead we’ve had several more shootings in the last five years and people aren’t doing anything to solve the real issues. Instead stupid “common sense” laws like mag limits and AR band do nothin* but hurt the law abiding.

So please excuse me if I find your post offensive. Look up the stats on conceal carry holders. We commit less crimes than anyone. So attacking us only makes communities less safe not safe.
 
Yup. Teenybopper trolls, almost all of them.

I can be a little OCD about shooting...but not about a CCW. That's a tool, like a Swiss Army Knife. Any passion I reserve for wringing the best performance from my own shooting.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
John as someone who has been on the wrong end of a shooting on a college campus I find your post very offensive.

What you describe may be true on some forums, but folks here seem to be focused on protecting themselves, those they love and those around them. If it comes across as anything but that then you need to look at your biases.

The fact that you lump all of us who conceal carry into a broad group makes me believe that you don’t carry and you have little understanding of what’s involved. As someone whose never been trapped in a classroom unarmed with no exit, not windo to escape and a kid with a shotgun blasting the door apart, you have no clue what it’s like to be praying not to die and for the police to hurry up and get there.

I have, and it’s hard knowing that your conceal carry gun is locked in the glovebox in your car about 1000 feet away. It’s harder knowing that you could take a life. So yea, some of us laugh at some of the bravado because there is some. But that due to ego and a desire to feel safe and secure. Once you’ve been there, it’s hard hearing people like you, and people who want to outlaw my guns because they’re clueless.

Frankly I wish the college I worked at would have taken the money they gave to one of my peers to lobby against the 2nd Amendment and used it instead to study the shooting. I offered to share what I learned. Instead we’ve had several more shootings in the last five years and people aren’t doing anything to solve the real issues. Instead stupid “common sense” laws like mag limits and AR band do nothin* but hurt the law abiding.

So please excuse me if I find your post offensive. Look up the stats on conceal carry holders. We commit less crimes than anyone. So attacking us only makes communities less safe not safe.
Click to expand...
I do not recall lumping anyone group together. Viewers simply cannot know if a poster actually has a CCW or not. It is the impression left by way too many on other gun forums that leaves a bad taste and certainly not limited to CCW. be they real or not. Survivalists have a segment eager for a scenario where they won't need to be bothered with civic responsibilities. That doesn't mean I don't prep, or object to preppers, only that as a group we've been handed a lot of bad PR by----seemingly-----our own.
I thought I was clear about the High Road being a nobler forum than most others.
My apologies if you find this offensive
 
The balance could be explained this way:

Any confrontation that I am involved in will include at least one gun; mine.
The choice to wear a self defense firearm was not an easy one, nor one that is without responsibilities.
I do not want to shoot anyone, even more...I do not want to get shot, stabbed, or beaten to death.
If I sound enthusiastic,it is because I am proud of the selection of my equipment, and the hours that I put into training.
I must maintain a winning attitude, and a positive mindset. If the wolf growls at the door, I must be ready.
My confidence, my perceived bravado is not for your benefit, it is for mine.
I have resolved long ago not to lose, but to win in defense of my life, and those lives I have chosen to defend.
 
First of all why should I care what is discussed on other forums that I don't belong to?

id est quod est

Due to a mass shooting that took place last year in a nearby community, a man pointing a rifle at passing motorists not far from where I live (he ended up being shot and killed by S.O.) and the changing tactics of terrorists in the U.K. and U.S. using motor vehicles as their weapon of mass killing and injuries I reevaluated my edc and the ammunition. I have researched handgun and ammunition performance, try to stay current on new handguns and ammunition that are being introduced on the market, enjoy watching youtube gun and ammo tests, read gun magazines and discuss guns with other friends and coworkers.

So yes Virginia things have changed.

The fact that you have a lack of interest in handguns especially as a leo does not mean those of us that do have a above average in firearms are "excited about getting the chance to be in a gunfight."
 
John Joseph said:
Handgunners, especially CCW holders sound like a very different kettle of fish no doubt because of the close contact with a loaded weapon for a good deal of the day.
Click to expand...
Yes, the inanimate object on my person all day every day creates mental instability. Maybe if it was an unloaded weapon it wouldn't exert as much influence. [/sarcasm]

Unbalanced? What planet are you living on?
 
I agree that there is all too much talk of fantasy scenarios of shooting people on the internet. Many people seem to obsess over it, though I don't think it makes then psychotics. Most people don't and find the conversation distasteful.

I'm obsessed with drag racing and guns in general. If you go over on a forum called arborist forum you'll find a huge group of people obsessed with chainsaws with passionate discussions about models and modification and which kind of chain is right for this or that type of tree. And you can bet they get in heated theoretical arguments. Most of them are people that don't even make there living using them. Peoples obsessions are weird.
 
Excited to get into a gun fight? Ummm no. There's a difference between being excited for something and being prepared.

Worrying about what gun to carry to the supermarket is a byproduct of having tons of options.

People tend to post every stray thought they have on the internet nowadays. It doesn't mean they are obsessed, it just means they need more hobbies. You're reading too much into it.

As someone who has had a gun pulled on them before, I give thought to what gun I want if that happens again. Feeling helpless blows.

There's definitely some overly enthusiastic folks out there, but I think you've overstated things.

I will admit though, I rarely visit other forums anymore because they are full of Internet commandos. The HK forum has lost me. I'm not enough of a tactical operator for that crowd.
 
JeffG said:
I gotta say, it was a dig at CCW holders.
Click to expand...
Not at all. I carried a duty revolver for 20 years and concealed for almost a long. Carrying presents new challenges (ever try using a public restroom wearing a Sam Browne with all the accoutrements? Or even a Detective Spl in an inside the pants holster?)
The thing is you learn and adapt and do that. I was always conscious of where the muzzle was pointed and the possibility of an AD, so yes, it certainly can be a constant reminder of one's responsibility.
What it's not is being excessive compulsive.
I'm not talking about hobbyists or collectors or competitors or hunters, or LEOs or CCWs or people who just love to go shooting with their families, but rather people who appear to have no balance in their lives---an addiction whether actual or macho phantasm for whatever reason.
Is an addiction to anything healthy? When it takes over your life to the point of interference, I'd have to say no.
An interest In firearms can open up unlimited opportunities to learn everything from ballistics to woodcraft to court decisions to leatherworking, to name just a few.
That is something I really enjoy about THR---it's a fount of information!
Other forums (not all gun forums---I regularly read a few shooting forums which are quite excellent IMHO) have contributors who sound like they fell out of a computer monitor during some video war game. Inquire about an ancillary but important issue regarding firearms and they (one can imagine) start foaming at the mouth.
Anytime force is required, we are going to be limited by something, so having a balanced prudent outlook is requisite to picking the battles you can win.
Addicts reliably cannot do this. Imprudence is a real problem (if the poster is being genuine, and not a mall commando)
That can't be helping the 2A, but then maybe I'm over reacting?
 
I understand what Mr. Joseph is saying, as people on other forums seem to be wanting to be involved in a deadly physical force encounter. The bait and switch, whether intentional or not, is the unspoken assumption that everyone chest thumping on less moderated forums are CCW permit holders. That is, of course, impossible to prove or disprove, and some people active on, as I said, "less moderated" forums may be misrepresenting themselves, their ages, abilities and legally available equipment. And, as it is a sport, hobby and Constitutional Right that tend to spark "spirited debate", there are always those who will deliberately misrepresent themselves to make the other side look bad.
I personally do not want to get into a deadly physical force episode if I can avoid it, but I will do my best to fall back on my training, both Departmental and personal, to survive and emerge from the encounter alive. Not chest thumping, reality. I have been carrying a sidearm legally for 34 years, professionally for over 23 years in various jobs. The interesting thing is, in MY state, CCW permits are not necessary to carry openly or concealed, and we like it that way.
 
IMO your post shows your prejudice, misconceptions and your already formed poor opinions about civilians who carry a self defense handgun. It seems some retired LEO's have bad opinions of us but I could be wrong.

If your displeasure is with other forums why not tell them instead of us? I'm not easily annoyed at what others say but you Sir have done it. Your attitude toward conceal carry owners is offenses even though you try to cover it in a passive aggressive manner. I know we shouldn't feed the trolls but I had to this time.
 
On the whole, I feel I've always maintained a pretty good balance.
It is true I have more handguns than long guns, but 2/3 of the short guns are more along the lines of collections,
i.e. they're more for looking at than shooting.

I think the wannabe 'Steve Buscemi character from Billy Madison' types don't stay around long on here.
They seem to outed fairly quickly for what they are or they become bored with the lack of participation in their whack-job threads.

ArchAngelCD said:
It seems some retired LEO's have bad opinions of us but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Don't think you are far off on that one Arch.
Here in Oregon, it seems there is a little known law that California LEOs from the larger cities have to move up here when they retire.
Most I've met, either at shows or shoots, seem to have trouble (when you push them on the subject) with the more open gun laws (for now!) that civilians have up here.

JT
 
I agree with the original poster. I do think that if you spend time on some of the other boards, you see quite a few posts that make it seem like the person is itching for a fight of some sort or eager to pull out his gun and "take out the trash" sort of stuff.

If you disagree with him, be polite and say so, fine. He is not accusing, but wondering at the number of posts that seem hostile in various ways or eager for violence.

I do think these sorts of things make the community of shooters look nutty.

Most people I know who carry don't talk a lot about it. They own a tool they choose to carry and they practice with it. They don't whip out the gun in the store or publicly obsess over whether 18 rounds will be enough to protect them for the gunfight at Kmart corral.

Skeet shooters can't get into penetration statistics and carry issues and such because shot gunners have no such option. It is only on the handgun boards that people can get into that stuff and so the few nuts have to pop off all the time and rant on. Add to that that all of us likely focus on the two or three weirdos rather than the thirty five normal posts. So it makes sense the weird stuff in on these boards.

I do think a person who stopped in to read some of the gun boards would leave thinking that lots of people interested in guns are racist, hot-heads itching to shoot someone. I could point to plenty of posts I have read that basically come very close to saying that sort of thing, especially in the little signatures a few people add to their posts.

I do not think that is who most of the gun owners in America are. But the nuts make all of us look bad, just like the few nuts at the range are the ones who are a danger to others. The nuts on any side make the majority look bad.

Both sides of this issue stereotype the other very very badly. I see if from both sides. It is too bad, and I try to point it out ANY time I see it.
 
I continue to find the O.P.'s comments offensive, pretentious and judgmental.

He makes it a point that he was a police officer and carried a gun for 20 years.

So what? I am retired from one Department after 23 years of service and that does not count my time with other departments.

He admits to his lack of interest in handguns when he states "When I was carrying a duty revolver it was always on my mind that I had a .357 but it was seldom a concern---it was just there in case I needed it.
The less I thought about it, the better I was at doing the other 999 things(such as situational awareness) my job required. There were times for department qualifications, training, practicing on my own dime, and cleaning & maintenance of course, but outside of that my revolver was simply a tool like a hammer or drill.
When I had my first CCW, it was pretty much the same thing.'

I have known many leo's with the type of attitude. They only carry a gun because the job requires it. They do not practice often on their own time and requalification is something to be dreaded.

While most of handguns work fine out-of-the-box almost all them can benefit from customizing to make it a better handgun for me. Different grips, changing the sights, action job, replacing parts, choices in ammunition are al topics that I have read and discussed on forums.

I just brought a new S&W M&P 9mm last week. I brought it for self-defense knowing in advance that I don't like the trigger pull on it so I am going to replace it with a APEX Duty Trigger Kit. The APEX Duty Trigger improves how quickly I can fire repeated shots and improves my ability to shoot accurately It turns a gun that rates 7 out of 10 points to 10 out 10 for me. So is that making me "excited about getting the chance to be in a gunfight?"

He makes a point of judging people by what he considers to be their lack of a balanced life but stops short of what he considers to be the balanced life we should have. Everyone of this forum have different types and levels of interest in firearms hence the difference topic forums. I don't judge them and hope they don't judge me simply because I have more interest in different types of shooting and firearms,

Then he concludes his long post by stating "true asset to the shooting sports!"

Sorry but the 2A is not about "shooting sports!"

Times have changed but unfortunately some people's attitudes have not.
 
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