Just suppose a friend was wanting to buy a shotgun for clays...

cdb1 said:

The aforementioned Vinci, A300 and 3901 couldn’t be shimmed enough to fit me. They also had synthetic stocks so the stocks couldn’t be steamed. I’ve had two shotgun stocks(wood) cut down to fit me by a gunsmith. Other than cutting down a stock I don’t know if I’d use many gunsmiths to fit a stock, I’d use a stock fitter. The gunsmith I use happens to be an expert on Perazzi, I’ve been told this by enough people to believe it. So I’d trust him. If I were starting over and didn’t know what fit me I’d probably go to a stock fitter but only on a nicer shotgun like my FABARM, fortunately only the LOP needed to be shortened.

I haven’t checked out what a good stock fitter charges in a long time but the last time I did it wasn’t worth it on a sub $1,000.00 shotgun, at least to me. I’m sure someone like kudu could address this much better than me.

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Thanks. I didn’t know such a thing as a fitter even existed.

Congratulate me! I am the proud owner of my first shotgun.

But no, it doesn't look anything like what we discussed in this and another thread a while back. I was looking for a semi-auto in order to get a better quality/price proposition than with an over/under, although for just shooting clays the latter would be the perfect choice. But being left handed put me into the higher end of all the common brands. Nobody is making left-handed autos in their base models anymore. As for used, the Houston market sucks right now. Finding a lefty is almost impossible, and the stores are really proud of what they've got either left or right.

As for an internet purchase, I was just not going to buy a gun sight unseen with a no-return policy, and that is all that I was finding.

So for a short while I made up my mind to spring for a Remington LH Versa Max. That is a really nice gun and even left-handed it is available for around $1,000 from Northern Arms on Gun Broker with free shipping and no credit card fees. I would have been happy with the V3 model for only $500, but it doesn't come LH. That may or may not really be important, but I wasn't interested in finding out for myself. I just decided to wait awhile for the stupid high expenses I have been experiencing this year to die down and then go for the Versa Max.

Then Saturday I went shooting again with my very experienced friend who this time lent me an old, very plain Browning o/u, and I really enjoyed using it. I decided to search for something like that used, but couldn't find anything under $1,200 in Houston even close to that kind of quality. My friend had mentioned Stoeger which is owned by Benelli/Beretta, and for a few minutes I thought that might be the answer, under $500 and a decent name attached. The Condor model with upgraded walnut looked pretty good in the photos. But then the negative reviews started showing up. I didn't need malfunctions with a gun bought long distance. Man, I was really frustrated.

Okay, so my next (and as it turns out final) step was to browse the Academy website. I had written off Turkish guns since so many of them are really poorly reviewed. But I was smitten by the Yildiz, the brand exclusively imported in the US by Academy and positively reviewed by most folks. Academy is a really reputable business and is very prominent in Houston. Everyone else in the general sporting goods field has either closed up or been bought out by Dick's. And you all know how that is going right now.

I admit to being quite concerned that the recoil of the 12 ga Yildiz was reported to be horrible, not a good thing for clays shooting. Then I realized that everyone was reviewing the aluminum receiver model that weighs in the low 6 lb. But there is a steel receiver model that weighs a respectable 7.4 lb and ought to show normal recoil feel which I can deal with.

And what I really liked was that the store is local in Houston and I could inspect and handle the gun before buying. But even better was that the warranty on this imported gun is provided and serviced by Briley, which not only has a super reputation in the shotgun world, but is also located right here in Houston. If I have a problem, I can take the gun into Academy which will send it to Briley, or if I want, I can take it to Briley myself. Just a short drive. Well that and the overall look and feel of the gun sold me.

So I bought the Yildiz SPZ ME12 Steel with 28 in barrel. Looks nice, decent wood. I'm afraid my friend is disappointed for me. He just doesn't understand the notion of utilitarian value. Everything for him is top grade. I wanted a gun, but just couldn't go that route. So here I am. I will report the results of my first outing to kill some clays.

George P said:

Those older Browning have held their value over the years, some other brands not so much. (I have two Brownings I can sell for more than I paid for them). That said, if the Yildiz fits yous and works for your intended purposes, then that is what counts. I shoot too much to take that chance. One of those Brownings is right at the 300,000 round mark and still works great. If you start to gravitate to more and more shooting, and then competition, you will want to get another built built for the huge volume of ammo you'll be shooting. Remember, the cost of targets and ammo can easily exceed the cost of ANY shotgun, even the higher end ones like Perazzi, Kreighoff, Kolar, and Beretta's DT series.

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Fair enough, but I doubt I will ever shoot more than 1,000-1,500 rounds/year. A hundred once a month is the most likely plan.

The other thing I should mention is that I like guns that don't hold their value. I am more interested in what I have to pay for them than I am what I can resell them for.

George P said:

But quality should count for something. Buying something really cheap that requires constant trips back for repairs is not as cost effective as something that just keeps on shooting.

1500 rounds per year, at an average cost of ammo and target of $1/each adds up over just a few years' time.

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eastbank said:

if he shoots federal one loads(4.74 a box at Walmart) that's about .19 cents a round and at out club a round of trap is 3.50 or .14 cents a bird. comes to 8.24 for a round of trap. his 1500 rounds would cost him 285 dollars and the cost for 60 rounds of trap at our club would be 210 dollars, at that it will not take long to over take the cost of a good shotgun. my singles trap shotgun is a browning BT-100 and I have over 45,000 rounds thru it now and all I have ever done to it is clean it. no repair parts, nada-zip and I can sell it today for more than I paid for it.

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No one said the gun was going to constantly need repairs. I only said that it was a good thing to have a top notch company In charge of repairs and also good that they would be easy to access.

Very simply put I am not prepared to put out $1,500 on a shotgun right now. No matter how much ammo and birds cost, that’s more of them that I can buy if I economize on the gun. We can discuss this further if the Yildiz doesn’t go bang, but I wouldn’t count on it. Some things are just better buys than others. My need is very basic. I feel that my gun should be too.

I’m 70 years old. If I shoot 1,200 rounds/yr for 20 more years, I’ll be lucky. Your big round count numbers have no meaning for me.

You are also ignoring the time value of money. I easily make on average 7% per year on my money. If I spend $500 on a gun and invest the extra $1,000, I will have $4,000 in 20 years. You will just have the gun which may have appreciated few hundred dollars. Your gun may hold its value better than mine, but not $4,000 worth.

Doc7 said:

Remington v3.

Under 600 on GrabAGun.com

I bought it a month ago there and love it

You’re welcome

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Certainly it was my first choice...except I’m left handed.

eastbank said:

you have made up your mind on what you want before you ask for advice, so no problem. as for 7 percent on your money, may I ask what and where is that bank>. I have seen many so call good shotguns from turkey-china ect come and go on the clay games and 90 precent can,t cut the mustard and fail on very few rounds, some are lucky(I hope you are) but most are not. by the way I am going on 75 and have been retired for 13 years and must watch my funds pretty close too.

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If you read my long post, you know I didn’t make up my kind until the end of the process, long after most advice was given to me. And there is no point in asking for more advice after the purchase is made. I was just letting folks know what I finally decided. I wasn’t asking for advice or approval.

To answer your other question I invest in a balanced portfolio of highly diversified stock and bond index funds. But even if the growth were only 3.5%, the $1,000 would still have doubled in 20 years.

George P said:

So am I and I own 2 RH Beretta A400s and have owned Remington RH 1100s in the past; not a big deal at all.

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Some say yes, some say no. Who ya gonna believe? Eeny, menu, money mo.

Welllll! Big day today. I took a lesson from a 3 time national champion here in Houston, Haley Dunn, and had a ball. She taught me so much in just 1 1/2 hours, I couldn't believe it. The new gun was great. She insisted on removing the brass front sight bead to discourage me from any attempt to sight down the barrel. And I'll be damned, it really worked. I didn't hit everything I shot at, but I made some good shots. I learned that you really can hit a bird by just looking at it and moving the gun along with your eyes. And I knew on the misses that I just wasn't staring down the bird hard enough. No pun intended, but I am really pumped.

She showed me that because of the length of my neck, I needed to raise the stock in my shoulder pocket so that almost half of the back of the stock was above my clavicle in order to have my head up straight when my cheek was in proper and position and the gun was properly mounted. On borrowed guns I had been bending my neck over the stock in order to get my eye over the barrel. I suppose I may want to have the stock adjusted in future, but I was amazed that shooting like that was perfectly comfortable with the ultra-light target loads I was using.

Now for a tiny bit of bad news/good news. The gun wouldn't fire on the over barrel after first firing the under barrel. It worked fine the other way around. But if you have been following this thread, you may remember that Briley's is the warranty manager for these Yildiz guns sold by Academy. On my way home I stopped in there at Briley's, and much to my embarrassment, there wasn't anything wrong. Both barrels were firing in either order. Must have been "stuck", and shooting the over barrel first loosened things up so that it now shoots fine either first or second. The Briley folks were soooo nice. I mean they were on me like gravy on rice as soon as I walked into the store. And they looked at the gun immediately and got me all straightened out. What I am talking about here is $3,000 gun service on a $450 gun that they didn't even sell. The technician who worked with me said Academy sells a load of the Yildiz guns, and less than 1% of them ever come in for service. Pretty impressive.

Color me a happy camper.