Offering advice at the range?

If someone asks a question I will do my best to answer. Otherwise my purpose at the range is to shoot and not advise others.

Hokie_PhD said:

I think it’s all in how you do it.
The know it all who comes over usually isn’t appreciated even if their right. Nor is the guy who acts like everyone’s dad. But if you come over in a way that shows you’re friendly and simply want to help if it’s wanted then that’ll usually make a friend.

The thing is some people like me are cautious about asking for help, and we’re not fond of the know it all. So coming over and saying hello and starting a conversation as mentioned above is a good approach.

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I generally don't consider myself to be expert enough to be offering advice in a whole lot of areas. And I generally have found that few people like getting unsolicited advice ... even more so among the millenials.

However, if I do give advice, its usually by letting the other person ask (i.e. creating an opening for them to ask a question). A casual opener and let the conversation move from there. Like just noting that the shooter has a neat or interesting pistol or rifle (or hinting that I had problems with the same gun). If I get a one word (or no word) response, then no advice is likely to be appreciated and I keep my mouth shut. Otherwise, if the other person wants to engage in chat, then I may offer a suggestion.

Also, I try not to sound off about what "I" know. I try to relate what others have taught me. That approach seems to stick better, IMHO.

Ks5shooter said:

If they are unsafe they will ABSOLUTELY get my advice

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Well, after a few bad experiences, I'd say ... if they are unsafe, I will ABSOLUTELY first get out of harms way.

If I see unsafe actions, I'm going to speak up.
If a person asks me for advice and I believe I have reasonable knowledge to instruct them, I will.
Otherwise, I'd prefer to be left alone and will not offer advice that is not directly asked for.

The one time that I remember offering advice to someone at a gun range was the time I traded my single shot .22 to another guy
so that he could try out my .22 while I tried out his older model bolt action repeater .22 .
I found out that his gun was so worn out that the trigger pull was just mushy slack and it could barely fire the gun.
My advice to him was - Get a new and better quality .22 because you owe it to yourself.
And that is the advice that I would give to other people in the same situation.

I'm pretty much with those who typically don't offer unsolicited advice but if asked, will try to help out the best I can. Sometimes it even pays off in an unexpected way.

Was at the range one day with only another older gentleman there besides myself. I noticed he was having a hard time getting any sort of decent group on target while shooting at about 25 feet. I didn't say anything but during a break in the shooting he came over and asked me if I would mind trying his new Ruger SR9c out. He wanted to know if it was him or the gun that was having the problem of being all over the place with the target. He loaded up 5 rounds for me and I proceeded to put all 5 shots in the black. I showed him a few of things I did while shooting and he thanked me for my help.

The other nice part of this, besides helping a fellow shooter, was that it gave me first hand experience with the SR9c and I was impressed by it. I liked the the overall design, the sights, and especially the trigger, and had been looking for a compact 9mm. for some time. This one filled all the boxes for what I wanted and soon after that I picked one up and have been enjoying shooting it ever since.

Generally I keep to my own stall but if someone looks like their struggling I may try to strike up a conversation and see if it leads to helping them.

I did deliberately butt in once recently because two young guys totally new to guns were doing something that could've gotten them hurt. I apologized for sticking my nose in their business but they seemed to appreciate avoiding severe burns.

Unsolicited advice is very annoying! "Would you like a hand" or "May I make a suggestion"... is the correct approach in my opinion. Making an offer that someone can accept of decline is much more productive than just telling someone what to do. Then when giving advice I usually relate the advice to something I have done in the past so as to make it something I have learned and am passing along. I.e. "It always took me forever to get a rifle on paper until I learned to look through the bore and line it up to the scope first".

The only time I impose my opinion at the range is when someone is doing something obviously stupid. There was a father teaching his kids to shoot a .22 at one end of the range while there were a half dozen of us at the other end of the range shooting high power. The father had his target set at about 10 yards. He decided to walk out and change targets without calling the range safe. (No range officer). I immediately called "Going down range" which stopped all firing until the father was done changing targets. At first the guys to the right of me looked at me like W-T-F (I called going down range in the middle of one of them was lining up a shot then just sat there). Then they saw the guy past the safe line and waited politely until I called "All Clear". I could tell the father was a little embarrassed and learned proper safety protocol without any additional talking to so I just left it there... I was in my early 20's at the time and middle aged men don't take a talking to by a young punk very well.

Unsafe-Leave cause you don't know who your going to confront about being unsafe and have an issue you cant handle.

Advise- Family and friends get it without asking cause i know they wont get upset. Strangers if they are really having a jam issue or wasting a lot of $ on ammo cause a scope could be loose or whatnot i will nicely ask if they would like help.

Otherwise all this tough guy ill let that guy know he's unsafe and I'm gonna go bitch someone out for "unsafe" stuff is going to get someone hurt one day.

What drives me nuts are the folks that go to ranges without any knowledge of firearms at all. Nothing for them to bring in a gun with they do not even have the basic skills. And if they do not have the basic skills, then you should assume they have no knowledge of Safety as well. I watched some jerk teaching his daughter which must have been around 7 years old. The idiot did not have enough common sense to teach her to NOT keep her finger off the Trigger until the proper time.
I am not sure you can fix stupid. There are programs such as NRA safety course all over this town.
I could go on and on about so many fools coming to the range these days and not sure I want to confront any of them.

Yes, there have been times, when I have seen someone struggle with a firearm. One time I watched a guy riding the slide of a pistol. When he was reloading, I simply said, Hey, I love your gun, I have one, how do you like it? He then told ME about his failures with the gun, and I told him, what I use to do wrong. He quickly caught on and got it. (he was riding the Slide).

Each situation will be different. You just have to pick and choose what those times are to help someone or even solicit help or which times to just stay the hell away from.

I mostly shoot at an indoor range. A lot of newbies come in there. Also a lot of guys that bring their GF and have them shoot a .40 or 9MM pistol as their first time. After observing for a bit and seeing the girls not having a good time. I politely and friendly ask if they would like to try something with a little less oomph. If they are friendly enough and don't grunt or growl at me, then we let them shoot a .22. Usually the girls go from being scared and unhappy to huge smiles on their faces.
I am a decent shot and sometimes other shooters will ask for some tips. I'll observe them and try to impart some help.

But in all cases, I observe the folks and their behavior and/or demeanor.

When I do I ask. If someone is having problems sighting in I'll ask if they would like a hand. That being said I'm a NRA Range Safety Officer and Rifle Instructor so it's kinda in my nature. If they don't want help that's fine. But in all my years I don't remember but 1 or 2 that declined.
Case in point. Couple years ago my son and I went to check zero on several rifles before deer season. We were packing up to leave. Guy down the line was banging away with a 270 Weatherby at 100yds and couldn't get it on 24" sq paper after a box and a half of ammo. Looked at my son and said should I help him? Stopped and asked if he wanted help sighting in, he was kinda at wits end. He said please do. 4 shots later he was on paper close enough to do final tuning. As a long time competitive shooter and instructor I just have a hard time watching people struggle. I personally appreciate when another competitor asks "have you ever tried..."

ohihunter2014 said:

Otherwise all this tough guy ill let that guy know he's unsafe and I'm gonna go bitch someone out for "unsafe" stuff is going to get someone hurt one day.

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In the interest of full disclosure I haven't had to confront a safety violation on the range in probably 10 years. Having said that if it's a genuine safety violation you need to speak up. You don't have to be an ass but you need to say something because someone really could die. "Excuse me sir, club rules do prohibit you from handling your gun during a cease fire" if they tell you to screw off drop it and call range control.

ohihunter2014 said:

Otherwise all this tough guy ill let that guy know he's unsafe and I'm gonna go bitch someone out for "unsafe" stuff is going to get someone hurt one day.

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As a Range Safety Officer and general club member, I NEVER bitch someone out. A stern correction for blatantly unsafe to a conversational correction for minor violations. Any disagreements get turned over to the board and they are asked to leave.

I go to the range to shoot and concentrate on my own shooting. I was a little taken aback a couple of weeks ago when a guy in the next bay said "Hey Nice shooting. I cant hit anything. can you look see if you can spot the problem'. I looked at his target and there were few shots even on paper. He asked if I would try his pistol, It was a Ruger Blackhawk just like mine. I was shooting the identical pistol except I had the 45 Colt cylinder in it. (I was shooting 2 inch groups offhand at 10 yards. I did a quick look over the pistol and everything looked fine. So I confirmed that he wanted me to try it. He was set up with the 45 ACP cylinder. The first shot was 2 inches low and the following five all clustered within 3 inches. Oops now I am faced with a dilemma! its the guys shooting ability! I wasn't sure what to do or say. I finally asked if he minded if I watched him put 6 off. He let off six and flinched badly on every shot.
I resorted to my sneaky trick, I told him I wanted him to turn his back while I loaded the chambers. I also told him that I would load only one, two, three or four rounds in the chamber and they would never be in the same order. After the second shot he flinched and there was just the sound of the hammer falling. he saw the muzzle move dramatically and was embarrassed. I explained what was happening and he started to understand. I worked with him for a good half hour and at the end of that time he was on paper with almost every shot. As we talked I discovered that he had never shot anything bigger than a .22 in the past. I went back to my shooting. Half hour later he walked back over and gave me a very nice 'Thank You" He went on to say that he had continued to load the cylinder the way I had and found that the embarrassment of seeing the muzzle jump all over as the hammer fell on an empty cylinder had fixed the flinch.
I said I had the same problem many years ago when a real old guy came over and did exactly what I had done with him. I remember I was so grateful that I could finally shoot without flinching. Even now after all these years, If I think I am flinching I still use the same tactic on myself and it sure stops it in a hurry
Anyway it was a good ending to a problem the guy was facing and I waited till he asked me, I wont volunteer help unless requested, or I see a serious safety violation.

Trunk Monkey said:

In the interest of full disclosure I haven't had to confront a safety violation on the range in probably 10 years. Having said that if it's a genuine safety violation you need to speak up. You don't have to be an ass but you need to say something because someone really could die. "Excuse me sir, club rules do prohibit you from handling your gun during a cease fire" if they tell you to screw off drop it and call range control.

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I agree 100%.

I have seen guys go off on people and not sure if its just the way its typed out on here but it sounds like some would fly off the handle if there was a safety issue.

I went off (well somewhat) 2 times in 15yrs of doing this.

1) Two guys shooting like mad men when myself and someone else was trying to teach a child how to shoot her first gun (22lr) and they thought it would be funny to continue even after being told hey your scaring the kids. RO asked them twice to relax so pecker head puts a suppressor on and goes to town again. I ended up leaving and never been back.

2) Same range and its raining when I pull in so everyone is hiding in their cars so I put the flag down and run downrange to hang targets at 100yards. I then hear the slide of a shotgun/slug gun close and turn around and this guys got his slug gun in a lead sled sitting at the bench. I yelled to my buddy he may want to explain the rules to them because if i come back and there is a shell in that gun I'm going to flip! Only reason that made me mad as it did was the passenger looked pretty pissed that i was dragging target holders and what not out and put the rope down as soon as i got out of the truck before ww3 started again. I'm sure he wasn't pleased he needed to wait an extra 5 min to start shooting again.

I had a RO at another state range adjust his scope rings while at cease fire but i walked over to put an ammo can down and grab my water bottle and he went off on me in front of probably 40 people. I said I'm carrying a heavy ammo can and set it down on the table and my rifles are in locked cases on the other bench. He still began screaming at me and was told if he didn't tone his manner with me there would be a problem. He kept yelling at me he is an NRA RSO! I said i don't care if your Barack Obama (current president) yell at me like that one more time! I then asked why it was ok for him to mess with his stuff while at a cease fire and he says cause I'm a RSO and this or that. After that i packed up and went about 100yards away to shoot alone and he proceeded to come down there every 4-5min and watch me along with his sidekick. Any other day they both would be in the air-conditioned office playing on their phones. I emailed the state and advised them i would never set foot at that facility I visited monthly again.

If someone is doing something because they are a complete idiot and have some inkling of what they are doing is wrong then yes something needs said in a jacked up way (to a point) but people go about it the wrong way.

Sorry not really going off on you just throwing some stuff out there.

ford8nr said:

As a Range Safety Officer and general club member, I NEVER bitch someone out. A stern correction for blatantly unsafe to a conversational correction for minor violations. Any disagreements get turned over to the board and they are asked to leave.

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We had a guy want to mess with his shotgun during a cold range at my club and i nicely said something to him in a very nice way cause he was 40yrs older than me and he barked at me. I walked over and said something to the president of the club who said hey, its cold range why you messing with that gun? He says oh, safety is on and I'm just trying to this or that! President said I don't care you don't touch the gun when its cold range. Older man got very belligerent with the president and myself. Both of us were very nice to him when we advised of club rules. Bad part is his buddy who was the member was disciplined for it.

I got chewed out last summer during a club match cause one of 4 RSO told me get my stuff ready on the table where it was a grab off the table and shoot type deal. I walked over and placed my bag down, pulled the hand gun out and 3 magazines and the other RO walks right in front of the table to pick something up while looking at his clipboard. I just closed the slide on the gun and put it on the table when he walked in front of me. Another RO chews me out and when i said that guy walked in front of me! Both of them lit me up so i said screw you clowns I'm out! Hot range too, i was told load and lay on the table. I mean i guess i should have been watching but who would think a RO of all people would walk right in front of a gun standing at a 25ft bench.

If someone is a true expert I want to hear what they have to say. That goes for anything. You usually have to ask those types for help though.

Hi...
I don't off er any advice to anybody on anything unless they ask.
If they don't follow the posted safety rules, I will mention it politely

I watch for muzzle discipline whenever others have a gun in their hands. I am particularly watchful of any young people or anyone who looks "sketchy" or loudmouthed...those are generally indicators of possible problems.
I see too many bullet holes in the benches and roof supports to believe it is all accidental, but I don't want myself or someone else to get shot.

While I generally keep to myself, I do try to observe who’s doing what around me. If I see someone struggling, I’ll often use a cease fire to ask what they are shooting, just showing friendly interest. If they engage at all, I’ll ask, “How’s it going?” or “How do you like it?” I have found that a friendly, non-critical approach often turns into an invitation to observe and comment. Nothing lost if they don’t engage.

Walkalong said:

Yep, and sometimes they don't want help, which is fine too.

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Yep.

While I do try and help those folks that need, want and appreciate help, I don't go to public ranges to be an instructor. I do that enough the way it is with helping out with Hunter Safety classes during the year. I never seem to have the time to "While glassing others targets I see no holes, dirt kicking up above or below, and the poor guy is still putting 20+ rounds downrange.". Never saw much sense to it unless they asked. Seems there is generally someone else there that does.

I generally mind my own business when I'm at my club or some other range, unless there's a visible safety issue. At a commercial range, it's on the operators to maintain control and my club has its own cadre of ROs on hand.

Only once did I speak up to another shooter, and that was because I spied his atrocious trigger control as he stood next to me on the line. I'm talking finger firmly on the trigger as he reloaded and pointing my way. Older gent, new permit holder, and (by his own admission) new to the sport.

He was a bit defensive when I cautioned him, but did realize he was in the wrong and between me, his host (private club), and the RO, who'd stepped out for a brief moment, ended up learning a few things the class didn't teach. Turned out to be a nice guy once we didn't come down hard on him and ended up joining. I see him every once in awhile and have no issue with him anymore, because he knows the rules now.

I go early in the mornings and there are very few people there usually and sometimes none which is just the way I like it. If there is someone there about all the conversation we have is asking one another about going to change targets. Other than that we tend to keep our mouths shut and tend to shooting. Sometimes someone will ask to borrow a screwdriver or allen wrench and that's about it. If some one starts doing stupid stuff I just pack up and leave but I've only had to do that a couple of times over the years. The early morning people tend to be middle aged and up and are level headed so no friction.

I'm a volunteer Range Officer, and do my best to see that everyone gets home with all their body parts intact. Safety violations get called immediately. And if someone has their left thumb knuckle in the path of the pistol slide, I'll warn them. But if they don't heed the warning, it's their knuckle and I'll still give them antibiotic ointment and a bandage.

As I walk up and down the line, I chat with everyone, ask them if they are having a good time, how they like their obviously new firearm, etc. I enjoy the interaction, and it makes it easier for them to ask for help if they need it.

I'm very sparing with advice, but on rare occasions have sighted in rifles for desperate people who waited until just before opening day of deer season and were failing at sighting in their new rifles.

Here is the scenario I don't understand. Most of the clubs I have belonged to over the years provide pre-hunting-season sight-in days for non-members to come and get squared away before opening day. We have volunteers working the line and have targets set up at 25, 50, and 100 yards to help get new rifles and scopes on target. Most folks understand that they are guests and are appreciative of the invitation and the help. But there are those who immediately set up on the 100 yard line, can't get on paper, and bite your head off if you offer assistance. As one who is always willing to learn from someone who know more than I do, I do NOT understand that attitude.